Chugalug Digest, Vol 14, Issue 36

From: Mike Robinson 
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You bring up several interesting points, answered inline:

>> "The perfect currency unit" today is probably "the ACH wire-transfer =
data packet."=20
>=20
> Oh dude.. you opened up a BIG can of worms. ACH is not the same as a =
Wire although they are similar.=20
> They are fairly well controlled "file formats" [...]
> You are talking about a transport method, a file format, a set of =
rules for transferring the government issued and controlled currency we =
commonly call a "dollar".=20

My point was that the ACH and wire-transfer systems are ... systems, =
supposedly "secure" ... by which "Money" (strictly by-agreement) can be =
transferred in real time from one place to another.  Any "government =
issued and controlled currency" can be transferred in this way, and such =
transfers are accepted by all concerned ... without the need for =
lugging-about gold bricks or printed paper.

> Bitcoins have value because people agree that they do. Dollars have a =
value set by the government AND various entities (other governments for =
example) AND the general population reaching a consensus.=20

"Only" because people (currently) agree that they do.  If someone stole =
your Dollars, and you could catch them, then you could put them in jail =
and make them give you your Dollars back.  Bitcoins, on the other hand, =
are "barter trade units" in the eyes of the law:  "someone stole your =
file."

> Gold has intrinsic value, Bullets have a more easily used by common =
people (that own guns) intrinsic value. A gallon of potable water has =
intrinsic value.. Food has intrinsic value.=20

All of these things have "intrinsic value" only to the extent that they =
are desirable.  Gold has been capturing the human imagination for =
millennia because it is pretty, malleable, and rare.  (It has a =
different sort of "intrinsic value" to an electrical engineer.)  A =
gallon of water is priceless in the Sahara; or about 80=A2 at the Golden =
Gallon.  Food is priceless to a starving-man, or on the dollar-menu at =
Wendy's.  (Maybe.  Heh...) =20

> Dollars and bitcoins, litecoins, and other "non-anchored" currencies =
have values that we, as a society mostly agree on.
>=20

The =3Didea=3D =3Dof=3D a "Dollar" has value.  The number in your =
bank-account "has value" because, well, "because you can spend it."  =
Likewise the plastic cards in your wallet.  Furthermore, if someone =
misappropriates your account, or your wallet, you have legal recourse.  =
Your deposits are guaranteed up to a quarter-million dollars ... and it =
does not make the slightest bit of difference to you where those =
replacement Dollars came from.

> They are easily exchanged and transported.=20

More specifically, they are "fungible."  "Able to replace or be replaced =
by another identical item; mutually interchangeable."  They can be, by =
agreement, "transported" (and "exchanged") by computer.  They are also =
=3Dliquid.=3D  We will never run out of, say, Dollars.  We will increase =
the supply as necessary to ensure that anyone who wants to settle a =
transaction using Dollars has, by definition, access to sufficient =
Dollars to do so (if he is entitled to possess them, and sometimes even =
if he's not).  If there was even the slightest hint that this were not =
so, we would instantly have "a run on the banks."

> If Bitcoin reaches critical mass for larger transactions it will =
change international commerce in interesting way.=20

Bitcoin is fundamentally based on the idea of "artificial scarcity."  =
They are "gold nuggets hidden in a vast quantity of dirt."  They are =
perceived as valuable to you because they are hard to get, and because =
they are perceived as "things," that is to say, "unique."  A dollar, on =
other hand, is not unique at all.  You don't get them by digging a hole =
in the ground.  (Most of us get them by writing computer programs; some =
do it by selling food and water at Wendy's.)  But it is their very =
"scarcity" that makes them unusable as "a medium of exchange."

"Money" doesn't have "value."  "Money" is a medium of exchange; nothing =
more or less.

The "scam" issue arises from, not any technical fault of bitcoin per-se, =
but rather of human nature:  "money for nothing."  People can be and are =
persuaded to pay $5,000 USD for, literally, "a money-making machine."  =
The system is based on "trust," basically in the complexity of a =
computer algorithm and on "one another" (most of whom are people you =
have never met and never will), yet it lacks recourse.  Thus, the =
perception that "this IS a nugget of gold" can be fostered, and, having =
thus been fostered, it can and therefore will be abused.  The one =
sure-fire way to turn a bitcoin into a fungible unit of currency is to =
build and to sell a money-machine for $5,000.  (I don't see them saying =
that you can pay for 'em in bitcoin.)

I have, personally, stood in the "sanctum sanctum" of a working gold =
mine:  the final step, in which a thin stream of gold is clinging to a =
certain spot on the shaker-table and this stream is carefully scooped =
up.  (Other heavy-metals are basically discarded.)  There is a GLEAM in =
the eyes of the people who work for that mine when they stand in that =
room.  You know not to take one step closer to that table; not to make =
the slightest move.  They're nice gentlemen and you've been with them =
all day, but ... but ...  but.  "Gold Fever."  It is real, and it is an =
inextricable -- and exploitable -- part of our human nature.





Anyone need a 10/100 Layer2 managed switch?

From: Benjamin Stewart 
------------------------------------------------------
We just replaced about 15 of these that had been in service for 15+ years.
Old? Yes. Solid? Yes. They even tolerate environments with lots of
metal-grinding dust in the air while never being cleaned!


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Bret McHone  wrote:

> To avoid thread hijacking I started a new one..
>
> Just as a heads up to anyone interested on the list, I have about 10
> currently (and getting a lot more) old Baystack 450 switches. 24-port
> managed 10/100 switches. I've been selling them for $20 a piece with
> cascade module and cables. Some even have the 10/100/1000 Mbps fiber module
> in them if anyone is interested. I may be willing to trade for beer or ammo
> :)
>
> These are only L2 switches, but they are solid. They are configured
> through the menu so they are pretty easy to setup.
>
> Thanks,
> Bret
>
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 7:25 AM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Dave Brockman wrote:
> >> On 7/22/2013 3:39 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
> >>> I have a 24 port 3com SuperStack II 10/100 switch you can have,
> >>> free.
> >
> >> I'll donate the shell(s) to put that thing out of its misery :)
> >
> > Sounds like a Chugalug Range Day: Geeks, Guns and Gear..
> >
> > And like Dave said: It's junk gear, but it works and it's free..
> >
> > In fear of sounding like Aaron, I need a clean out the garage/office
> junk sale day..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 

Anyone need a 10/100 Layer2 managed switch?

From: Bret McHone 
------------------------------------------------------
To avoid thread hijacking I started a new one..

Just as a heads up to anyone interested on the list, I have about 10 currently (and getting a lot more) old Baystack 450 switches. 24-port managed 10/100 switches. I've been selling them for $20 a piece with cascade module and cables. Some even have the 10/100/1000 Mbps fiber module in them if anyone is interested. I may be willing to trade for beer or ammo :)

These are only L2 switches, but they are solid. They are configured through the menu so they are pretty easy to setup.

Thanks,
Bret

On Jul 23, 2013, at 7:25 AM, Mike Harrison wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Dave Brockman wrote:
>> On 7/22/2013 3:39 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>>> I have a 24 port 3com SuperStack II 10/100 switch you can have,
>>> free.
> 
>> I'll donate the shell(s) to put that thing out of its misery :)
> 
> Sounds like a Chugalug Range Day: Geeks, Guns and Gear..
> 
> And like Dave said: It's junk gear, but it works and it's free..
> 
> In fear of sounding like Aaron, I need a clean out the garage/office junk sale day..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>