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html mail on lists

From: R D Flowers 
------------------------------------------------------
First of all, Hi all, since I haven't been in touch for a while.

Then,

I value chugalug email. I have a policy of not accepting html mail ( 
fetching remote images helps spammers and other such cruds ), so some of 
the sterling missives just look like gibber. Rod and Bret are the ones I 
notice most. I just have to skip over those unless someone in a reply 
quotes such a message.

Sigh.

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ Just using Thunderbird or gmail here.

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Bret McHone wrote: Me too Thunderbird sort of (actually using the mail part of Seamonkey). I don't get your point yet. It isn't a lack of ability in my email client, it is my wish only to get text email. Gmail is in my view too evil for privacy reasons.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ While understand I the reasoning and stated much the same in past, it is not like any here is using outlook. Nor are we sending those annoying yahoo html messages. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R D Flowers" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:47:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Chugalug] html mail on lists First of all, Hi all, since I haven't been in touch for a while. Then, I value chugalug email. I have a policy of not accepting html mail ( fetching remote images helps spammers and other such cruds ), so some of the sterling missives just look like gibber. Rod and Bret are the ones I notice most. I just have to skip over those unless someone in a reply quotes such a message. Sigh.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Well, that is your choice. Live with the consequences. Do not expect everyone else in the world to bend over backwards because you refuse to use something that has is normal practice for literally a billion people everyday. You seem to have 2 choices - change your settings and catch up with the rest of the universe who isn't on 28K dial-up, or deal with the consequences of your odd and archaic choice - that being, to get HTML email as plain text, which isn't often human readable or at least not human reader-friendly. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Rod-Lists wrote:

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.21

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Chad Smith wrote:

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ Not true. Look at the raw messages from many of us, including me and any others on Gmail, and you will see a multipart MIME-encoded message with the content in text/plain and text/html. I'm answering this message in HTML but chances are you will be able to see it in plain-text as intended. 2. What made you so W.-sure I'm on dialup? Actually I'm on epbfi, though I Again, in looking at the raw messages from Rod and Chad, I don't see any of this "8-bit" gibberish that you posted. However, it looks like base64-encoded content (run it through PHP's base64

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I'm not concerned about your opinion of my posts. Nor did I say that you were using dialup - I said that most people who aren't on dialup accept html email. You know, the billion or so internet users around the world. Your choice to refuse html email is yours to make. I could care less if you stay in 1991 with your bulletin board viewpoint of what is valuable tech info. The world doesn't exist in plain text, why should we use multi-Ghz machines with mbit per second connections to transmit only plain text? But - if you should choose, as is your right, to remain hidden from the big bad world of hyperlinks and images - don't expect anyone to limit themselves to make you feel better. Your choice does not affect my, or anyone else's, choice of email provider, operating system, or email client. You want to stay in the darkages of APRANET, feel free. Just don't whine when the rest of the world uses *BOLD! (OMG - a STYLE!).* - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ God ******* ****** not this ******** again

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Can't we all just be friends...

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 /sigh Chad: +1 You could be less of an antagonistic asshat. Seriously, we all got it. You like shinies. Some of us don't care for them, and properly formatted emails allows us all to enjoy the best of our preferences. Some times email clients futz up, sometimes MTA's futz up, sometimes other MUAs futz up. Bottom line, if he's not able to see the plain text version and his MUA is configured to display the plain text version, then something is futzed along the way. My MUA quite happily showed me your diatribe in plain text only, so next time may I suggest ASCII art for your styling needs. RD: You could help us to help you by giving a few more details. The raw individual message looks fine to at least a couple of us. It was sent with HTML, all that are have the list sig as an attachment. It also displays just fine as plain text for me. What client are you using? Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2KvyoACgkQABP1RO+tr2RBGwCeM/Ats2EvTuqFQsFHSSih95GS 8F0AoJu2jJDAWaPxhe/NvG/Iwo1oUDWn =xjTQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Stephen Kraus wrote:

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Brockman wrote:

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I don't use an email client. I use gmail via the website. So, if my messages are including gibberish, it's not from any email client. Gmail - Chrome - Mac OS X - all latest versions. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Brockman wrote:

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ First of all, my rant: http://abstrusegoose.com/347 AND - All e-mail should be plain text! ------------------------------------------------- But in reality, it might be time to check the configs of your e-mail client. While I don't like: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" c2FkIEkgd2FzIGEgYmlnIGdpem1vIHVzZXIuIAoKLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0t LSAKRnJvbTogIkNoYWQgU21pdGgiIDxjaGFkNzhAZ21haWwuY29tPiAKVG86ICJDSFVHQUxVRyIg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- it IS valid e-mail. Even though it is obtuse and cryptic, it should be transparent to you via any sane email client (I use PINE and it is).

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ Better? My posts are too important to have someone miss a single letter I post. ;) Actually I'm just generally trying to throw a little joke out there most of the time. I can't really comment on much more than wireless, enterprise networking, windows or virtualization. My linux skillz are mediocre at best. I could care less about the HTML formatting, I just never disabled it after installing thunderbird on my laptop. -B

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ Ok well I have to say that this is a very strange argument for a Linux mailing list as no one has yet brought up the other solutions. Yes there are more solutions than live with it or go with it. The solutions are OSS! Ok, I am not sure about Thunderbird/Seamonkey today but they used to be able to pipe the mail through a program before viewing. Also if you are running your own mail server (as I would suspect anyone who really wants text only would do ;) ) then you can pipe your mail through a program server side. Something like one of these tools: http://www.w3.org/Tools/html2things.html Friends make sure friends think OSS first!

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ let the vi vs EMACS Games begin. *ducks* ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Kraus" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] html mail on lists Can't we all just be friends... God ******* ****** not this ******** again

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Perhaps the Epb guy on the list might chime in.=20 At work I use their zimbra interface (webmail).=20 Which is slightly different from chattanooga.net (who owns them now?)=C2=A0= Zimbra implementation.=20 remind me to use this address with aclient from home to if it happens.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "R D Flowers" =20 To: "CHUGALUG" =20 Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:41:50 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] html mail on lists=20 Dave Brockman wrote:=20 te:=20 it.=20 ly=20 text=20 me=20 raw=20 nt=20 =20 =20

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Do you have UTF-8 configured as a locale? I'm going to forward you the original email in question, in single post mode, and please let me know what you see.... Gmail formatting is just atrocious, period. But I don't think that's your problem. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2LQL8ACgkQABP1RO+tr2QjxACfY3/MLUubC6Z7LgulSMvSHxD5 vugAoJN8R+nXcZgAVphPTOtihV039wBA =9InO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ [ X ] vi [ ] emacs

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ [ ] vi [ ] emacs [ X ] notepad.exe

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Heretic.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ [ ] vi [ ] emacs [ ] notepad.exe [X] BBEdit - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ [ =C2=A0] vi [ =C2=A0] emacs [ =C2=A0] notepad.exe [ ] BBEdit [X] STET

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 [*]vi [ ]emacs [ ]notepad [*]notepad++ (gvim scares the co-workers, but seriously notepad has the be the lamest text editor known to man) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2LV0YACgkQABP1RO+tr2QFtwCff7mX6yGujD99mmTw6GVaUTkw zpwAnier+t04GNnsFF6PrE7AxetK7qA3 =wFt3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ Real response: vi and notepad++ here as well. Though notepad is one of the few tools that can manipulate NTFS alternate data streams.

=============================================================== From: R D Flowers ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Brockman wrote: Dave, Clear as a bell w/ no problem. Many utf-8 messages, btw, are no problem. But, all problems are utf-8 . Gmail is not the problem. Many gmail messages are fine. Rod's are not gmail. Rods of today have no problem.

=============================================================== From: Stephen Rees ------------------------------------------------------ [ ] vi [ ] emacs [ ] notepad.exe [ ] BBEdit [X] nano And, by the way, while HTML email has it's place in the business/advertising world, folks with etiquette, and especially technical people, should know better than to use HTML for normal email. Email was never intended to handle HTML, file storage, be confidential, etc., etc.. Technical people know that HTML takes a lot more space than text and is subject to the rendering of the recipient's email client, and if it isn't necessary, email courtesy dictates not to fill other's inboxes with extraneous data. Not everyone's client renders it correctly, or at all. I was rather disappointed with the initial responses to the OP's request. Perhaps the responders were good friends, perhaps they were jesting. I don't know - it's a public list and those details don't come through. To a newcomer though, who's just listening before getting involved, it may scare them off. It doesn't seem right to flame the OP for requesting folks apply standard courtesy/etiquette. And if he was on a 56k modem or less, who cares? Maybe he uses an iPhone on ATT's very slow network to read email sometimes, like me. As technically inclined folks, we tend to forget that not everyone has bountiful bandwidth or storage capacity. Acting like we are better than someone who isn't as blessed as us is not in the spirit of LUGs, OSS, etc. We should be fostering growth in those who are less fortunate or advanced, and promoting an attitude that makes newcomers (or old-timers) feel welcome. We ought to be leaders, demonstrating proper courtesies. As for me, I apologize for my HTML emails. I neglected to setup this particular account on my new computer to send text only. I've corrected that now. http://email.about.com/od/netiquettetips/qt/When-In-Doubt-Send-Plain-Text-Email-Not-Fancy-Html.htm http://email.about.com/od/emailnetiquette/tp/core

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ What's funny is - you accuse me of acting like I'm better than someone else, when I felt like the OP was coming across, (as are you), as very "Geekier-than-thou because I surf the web matrix style and only look at the pure code". And I'm the one who doesn't have access to Gigabit Internet, unlike you guys in Chattanooga. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ Whoever the list admin is could always just turn on content filtering in mailman. Turn on convert

=============================================================== From: Nancy Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I've just accepted that my email filters out Rod and Bret. I've long thought that if only it would filter out Chad instead, life would be better. Instead, I look for Rod and Bret's emails in other reply threads and consider the source with Chad's. Princess Nancy Message: 13 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:20:49 -0400 From: R D Flowers Subject: Re: [Chugalug] html mail on lists To: CHUGALUG Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Chad Smith wrote: ---------------------- Nancy Harrison EverythingJustSo.com

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ [X] joe ;-)

=============================================================== From: Bobby ------------------------------------------------------ Surely I'm not the only emacs user. Right?

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Darn. I thought we rooted them out and dealt with them during the last jihad.

=============================================================== From: Bobby ------------------------------------------------------ Crap

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ Is this relevant at all?: http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030707

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ While interesting.. I don't know. I use one of the most ancient and arcane email clients out there: Pine ...and I don't have any issues. It even lets me view both copies of your email from gmail, the plain text and the HTML one (via ELinks) with no issues.

=============================================================== From: Jason Brown ------------------------------------------------------ hmm... ssh ***@devbburden.*** sudo echo 'alias emacs = 'vim' >> ~/.bashrc I win..

=============================================================== From: Bobby ------------------------------------------------------ I'll just ssh into my box at home and do all my coding in Emacs via Tramp from my personal machine. Yes, that would be efficient.