FIt-PC2? Anyone used one of these?

From: Bret McHone 
------------------------------------------------------
I've been looking at a cheap(ish)/low power/low profile desktop to use 
for home and ran across this. Anyone ever used one of these?

http://www.fit-pc.com

They are really small with a tiny power footprint. Looks like it would 
be great for my home system.

-Bret

=============================================================== From: Nick Smith ------------------------------------------------------ That 2 nic one would make a sweet little firewall appliance.

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ It's their power usage that surprised me. 6W at low CPU load That 2 nic one would make a sweet little firewall appliance.

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ The one with the dual ethernet would make a killer gateway. Sure would beat the clunky Athlon XP system I'm using. I wonder how well it would play with CentOS.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ looks like iit has only been tried ubuntu 8. http://www.fit-pc2.com/wiki/index.php?title=Linux

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ They have their own install images. http://www.fit-pc2.com/download/ubuntu/releases/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod-Lists" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:11:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] FIt-PC2? Anyone used one of these? looks like iit has only been tried ubuntu 8. http://www.fit-pc2.com/wiki/index.php?title=Linux

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ I'm allergic to Ubuntu.

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ Glad I'm not the only one. --=20 " ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we=E2=80=99re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aar= on Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead" - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Sterling, Virginia USA

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ So am I to understand that you're so anti-establishment that once Linux eve= n hints at going mainstream you ditch it? - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote:

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ Is RHEL not mainstream? ven --=20 " ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we=E2=80=99re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aar= on Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead" - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Sterling, Virginia USA

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ You beat me to it, Alex. And Chad, I simply do not like Debian-based distros. Never have.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Haters gonna hate -Cameron Sent via an Android phone You beat me to it, Alex. And Chad, I simply do not like Debian-based distros. Never have.

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Wonderful. RPM-based distros are now a hate crime.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ No hate for RPM, yum OTOH -Cameron Sent via an Android phone Wonderful. RPM-based distros are now a hate crime.

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 RPM has, in the past, led me to contemplate acts of heinous violence against electronic equipment.... ~13 years ago in a previous life, at a previous employer, it was a running joke how long (short) it took to break RPM on a brand new install. I've heard it's better these days, I just don't have a lot of RHEL/SLES to manage these days. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1kS+UACgkQABP1RO+tr2R/wQCgv4VeBRC9XBSAPJ3xEtWvSJ7q OtsAoKjn7bMIVTyuWDoCnqYP63rduvq7 =E8ff -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Yes, it is a LOT better these days. Especially if you stick to the official repos. I honestly cannot remember the last time I had an RPM-related emergency.

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ Yep, the two things I remember from trying out Linux 8+ years ago: 1) Ran out of free disk space. Shit, back to Windows. 2) Some kind of terrible RPM error that prevented me from doing anything. Shit, back to Windows. Then Windows Vista came along, which sucked badly enough to make me seriously try Ubuntu. So far it's been a good balance between "just works" and tweakability. Sure there are still things that annoy me (NetworkManager I'm looking at you) but it hasn't been enough to make me want to switch to Debian and lose some of that "just works" feel.

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Yes. The RPM database used to toss cookies if you looked at it the wrong way. One errant transaction would hose the whole thing. I had a RedHat 6.0 install that died beyond resuscitation because DB4 decided to have a brain fart in the middle of installing XMMS. Fortunately, things are a lot more robust these days.

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's funny. A distro that has everything I want/need in the official repos. Maybe someday.... To be fair, my most recent encounters with Fedora and CentOS have not yielded any major breakage, especially not any total system fubaring events. It is still rather trivial to create a circular dependency, but forcing it these days seems to either work, or fail w/o totally breaking everything. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1kX4wACgkQABP1RO+tr2TCugCfWx1Q2BYdeuszsYvVYATX4jPF jXwAni6MtVwKxU0t5kde9kfiofj4TiLO =V0O2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yep, the two things I remember from trying out Win95 16+ years ago: 1) Ran out of free disk space. Meh, BBS (and OS/2) need a new partition anyway. Yep, the two things I remember from playing with RH v3something 12+: 2) Some kind of terrible RPM error that prevented me from doing anything. Shit, back to Slack with a bare install and compiling everything from scratch. I had similar experiences :) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1kYI4ACgkQABP1RO+tr2TDLQCgvWFHIvTMaxh9sQ53reexON3C 85UAoJ6CjrC96zKJxdkzxfg8czQ1XDgM =uJi7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Everybody knows how red hat treats its fans. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Wilson" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:28:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] FIt-PC2? Anyone used one of these? You beat me to it, Alex. And Chad, I simply do not like Debian-based distros. Never have.

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ They sent me a hat once. Would have been nice if it wasn't sized for a cupie doll.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ RHEL is not mainstream. Can you walk into any store in America and buy a new Red Hat Laptop? Let me put it this way - no server OS will ever be mainstream. When I say mainstream, I mean an OS that Joe Websurfer has heard of, and even more so that he knows someone that uses that as their main OS. I google "Ubuntu Laptop" - I get hits like Amazon, ebay, and Dell - selling actual laptops with Ubuntu on it. I google "red hat laptop" - I get case stickers and software support and books and Elmo and berets... - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Why on earth would they do that? RedHat, rightly, walked away from that business years ago. And, lo and behold, they started to make money. And Joe Websurfer will be doing most of his surfing on his phone or tablet. Android is Linux's future - Not Ubuntu. People have been hammering on desktop Linux for 13+ years and it is *still* is a niche product. Even when Microsoft produces garbage like Pre SP-2 Vista, Linux does not win. People either suffer through it or pony up a bit more for an Apple. Now that the iPad has taken root, the game is pretty much over. And I can google 'catsup ice cream' and get over 100,000 hits. Which of the two entities actually turns a profit? Hint: It isn't Canonical.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ And who cares about which company is making a profit? I'm talking about which distro is more widely known. Ubuntu is more popular than Red Hat to end users. Period. And popularity to end users somehow translates to "bad" to people who define themselves by being anti-conformists. Since most people are willing to accept Ubuntu and Android and TiVo (which is Linux) - then there most be something wrong with Ubuntu and Android and TiVo.... - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Red Hat also sells JBoss and Virtulization software. Their business is not all Linux. Canonical, OTOH...

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Hehe. Yeah, that qualifies as pipe-dream, doesn't it? Fortunately, I don't require much more than the basic network services and VIM. I just use it as a utility server and a development platform.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ If you're an Ubuntu user, I'd care about whether or not the corporate sponsor can actually back the distribution financially.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Sad thing is your both right. I thought about paying support fees just support ubuntu. Canonical has survive for Ubuntu to survive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Smith" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:02:04 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] FIt-PC2? Anyone used one of these? And who cares about which company is making a profit? I'm talking about which distro is more widely known. Ubuntu is more popular than Red Hat to end users. Period. And popularity to end users somehow translates to "bad" to people who define themselves by being anti-conformists. Since most people are willing to accept Ubuntu and Android and TiVo (which is Linux) - then there most be something wrong with Ubuntu and Android and TiVo.... - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya Which of the two entities actually turns a profit? Hint: It isn't Canonical.

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ Mainstream is relative to the market. RHEL, SLES, and Ubuntu are mainstream= along with Windows and Big Iron Unix variants. Keep in mind that MS does n= ot make most of it's money off desktop OSs. MS makes a product tailored for= just about every mainstream industry and you have prolly never heard of the= m. Do not even get me started on what HP and IBM do for the auto and Health= industries. =20 -AW mainstream, I mean an OS that Joe Websurfer has heard of, and even more so t= hat he knows someone that uses that as their main OS. g actual laptops with Ubuntu on it. I google "red hat laptop" - I get case s= tickers and software support and books and Elmo and berets... ry 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya even

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ You are USA Centric. Canonical is to the rest of the world, what RedHat is to the USA. And profit is only part of the measure of success in Canonical's eyes. Africa is a -very- different place technologically and socially.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ No, it's not. I was talking about mainstream as I have already defined it. (Since I'm the one who brought up the term, I do know in exactly which sense it was being used.) A distro of which the typical end user has heard and has a relatively positive opinion. That definition applies to Ubuntu. It does not apply to Red Hat. The general statement was made, and echoed, that Ubuntu is somehow inherently bad. Since there was no actual reason given, the one thing that separates Ubuntu from almost every other distro of Linux, is that it is widely available to the average end user. The only other feature of Ubuntu that was mentioned was that it's a Debian-based distro. If that were truly the complaint, the statement should have been "I'm allergic to Debian". But it wasn't. Ubuntu was singled out. Twice. Whatever, all I'm saying is if that one is going to hate anything that the masses love, one will always be on the outside looking in. And apparently, that's exactly what some people want. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ This is all well and good but Shuttleworth's pockets are not infinitely deep. At some point it's going to have to pay for itself. And I am still trying to figure out how my not particularly liking Debian-based distros lead to a damned Holy war. Note to the person who asked why I don't bother with Linux mailing lists anymore.... Consider this thread Exhibit A ;)

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I wasn't 'hating' on RPM-based distributions, I was merely pointing out your dislike of Debian distributions. People here are too subjective to trolling. How about...we all just build Linux from scratch? *runs*

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Ha! I forked and maintained a distro for a couple of years. The experience lead me to become a Luddite :D I have no clue why these things have to be discussed with such religious fervor. This makes the Amiga Persecution discussions from back in the day seem mild. All in all, it is counter-productive.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Some would say the internet is the world's largest productivity sink.

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ I would say it's a prime example of the old saying, "Garbage in, garbage out". Sure you find good bits of information, but you have to wade through the crap to get to it. I think despair.com has a great quote that summarizes it very well. "Never before have so many people with so little to say said so much to so few." -B

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You can't just walk into "any" store in America and buy Apple either, do you consider them mainstream? I seriously doubt there will ever be the OEM opportunity MS scored w/ IBM for anyone again. Focusing on services was the right move. Completely changing the licensing model and no longer making the product available I kinda have a problem with. Yes, I can register for a trial and it won't cost me anything to use it. It is however, 300,000% more complicated than obtaining any other distro of Linux or BSD. So 2 steps forward, one step back. We're a generation away from that still I think. Valid point, but I don't see it completely consuming that quickly. Phones and tablets still don't do a lot of things that most of my remote works need. It's an application issue to this day. I can't replace all my Windows apps, and I sure can't replace all of my customers' apps. Most people don't care about the OS, they care about getting what they want and/or need getting done. But until ActiveX in the browser is completely dead, and MSO documents can be opened and edited exactly like they can in MSO, the home desktop will continue to emulate the work desktop. They are still niche devices and only serve a handful of useful purposes. I'm not sure what the next portable computing device will look like, but it is not a phone, and it has to do a sh!t ton more than an ipad can... I'm not going to fault them for having a benefactor willing to fund it's development. What about debian based distros do you not like so much? I have my gripes w/ Ubuntu, but they are usually grouped into two categories. 1) For ease of use, you move/change .conf files and how they work, so it annoys me when I try to fix something manually and 2) For keeping up with the Joneses, their software choices sometimes are a little... premature. My usual complaint with Debian is just their release cycle is too long. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1lYdYACgkQABP1RO+tr2TjRwCdENYQ+bQpD2+2D1Dz2zrXFmGj RbwAnjhVHtnap3A2OqMESoKY6NLkiLsg =HdsI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hehe, there's always something.... :) To be fair, with advances in virtualization and well, I guess I got old and collected a bunch of hardware along the way, whenever I'm embarking on a new discovery journey, I tend to spin up a VM or machine dedicated to just that first thing. And 99% of my pain is always on the desktop side of things... I can get the server pieces I need running on pretty much any *nix, like your needs, the server configs are pretty modest compared to what I torture my desktops with. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1lZKoACgkQABP1RO+tr2Q50gCfXFcxeT0IbU7C8tLgj6pjiWmj K/AAnRK7c98rSrB7TLu2kwlw8vfaZLwn =vFue -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Keep in mind that MS does not make most of it's money off desktop OSs. Office is one of, if not the heaviest hitter. SQL has also finally started to turn into quite a cash cow for them, thanks to SP and everything else they make needing it. Oh, except I still don't have a SQL backend for Exchange. I digress... MS bought all the products tailored for many mainstream industries and technologies you have prolly no idea that the only vendor in the game is MS. Fixed that one for you.... Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1lZpEACgkQABP1RO+tr2TIRwCeKzsTxE3+W+EqYTYTcTlfQ+TQ tnQAoJVIz+rCAt2IPyQAbfu+IsmFppJE =sDCQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I basically "forked" Slack every install I used to do. It was the maintaining part that was a bitch :) That was just a single system or three, I can't imagine Tom's journey. I do remember some of the stories shared on the list in the past though :) And I still have a Gentoo box or three :) Pardon my previous email, I was trying to divert the anti-canonical by asking about the deb based. There are things I like about several distros, none of them make me 100% happy. For server purposes, I can stand up just about anyone and keep a relatively stable, updated box running. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1ladoACgkQABP1RO+tr2RDAgCgofZXrhr687uL2/eHKH5Fz1G6 bswAoJyuYs1nV/XtR6Q7oPEtRb2FGWFH =UuI+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Well I think the turn key options of iOS and other closed systems are the "PC's" of the future. And I say that as someone who considered Amigas to be "PC's". They are not there yet but a lot of consumers want that future. Still there are folk who are so branded they WILL NOT use anything other than a Windows system. Even if it means running older Windows. I had a non techie driver bitch and moan because his boat anchor was running ubuntu. And I put I think 2000 on it and he was happy as a lark. And all he does is print out maps and email. For some, if it is not windows it will not do. Never mind the distro can run circles around the windows they had and do everything they need. They have been trained too well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brockman" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:36:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] FIt-PC2? Anyone used one of these? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You can't just walk into "any" store in America and buy Apple either, do you consider them mainstream? I seriously doubt there will ever be the OEM opportunity MS scored w/ IBM for anyone again. Focusing on services was the right move. Completely changing the licensing model and no longer making the product available I kinda have a problem with. Yes, I can register for a trial and it won't cost me anything to use it. It is however, 300,000% more complicated than obtaining any other distro of Linux or BSD. So 2 steps forward, one step back. We're a generation away from that still I think. Valid point, but I don't see it completely consuming that quickly. Phones and tablets still don't do a lot of things that most of my remote works need. It's an application issue to this day. I can't replace all my Windows apps, and I sure can't replace all of my customers' apps. Most people don't care about the OS, they care about getting what they want and/or need getting done. But until ActiveX in the browser is completely dead, and MSO documents can be opened and edited exactly like they can in MSO, the home desktop will continue to emulate the work desktop. They are still niche devices and only serve a handful of useful purposes. I'm not sure what the next portable computing device will look like, but it is not a phone, and it has to do a sh!t ton more than an ipad can... I'm not going to fault them for having a benefactor willing to fund it's development. What about debian based distros do you not like so much? I have my gripes w/ Ubuntu, but they are usually grouped into two categories. 1) For ease of use, you move/change .conf files and how they work, so it annoys me when I try to fix something manually and 2) For keeping up with the Joneses, their software choices sometimes are a little... premature. My usual complaint with Debian is just their release cycle is too long. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1lYdYACgkQABP1RO+tr2TjRwCdENYQ+bQpD2+2D1Dz2zrXFmGj RbwAnjhVHtnap3A2OqMESoKY6NLkiLsg =HdsI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----