Ruby programmers gonna bitch, Larry Ellison gonna...well...I'M ON A BOAT

From: Cameron Kilgore 
------------------------------------------------------
NetBeans is losing Ruby support 

NetBeans with Ruby was what got me to use NetBeans to begin with! I'm
worried they'll axe PHP support next, which...would be quite a setback to
everything I have become.

=============================================================== From: Joshua Estes ------------------------------------------------------ The interesting thing here to note is they said Rails, I doubt that they will stop supporting Ruby. It would be the exact same with some type of software having support for say CodeIgniter then say, "Nah, we aren't gonna have support for CodeIgniter any more". They will keep PHP/Java/Python/CSS/etc I'm pretty glad that they chose to do this. The only people that are gonna complain are the Rails Fan boys/girls. Point is, they decided to stop supporting a framework. They will still support the language. - Joshua Estes http://www.ScenicCityLabs.com http://www.ChattanoogaDevelopers.com @JoshuaEstes @ScenicCityLabs @ChattDevelopers "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of great memories you could otherwise be making."

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ If by support you mean "add syntax colors and function definitions" I give it about a week before all the butthurt Rails drones get over themselves and add their own. I had read this as "we're dropping Ruby support" which would have been super uncool.

=============================================================== From: Joshua Estes ------------------------------------------------------ I wish they would drop support for it completely. I very much dislike these rails fanboys and can point out time and time again that they don't understand the difference between a programming language and a framework. They should all be made to program using crayons and color by number books. It's rare for me to meet a rails developer to know their stuff (ie make a ruby script without the use of rails). - Joshua Estes http://www.ScenicCityLabs.com http://www.ChattanoogaDevelopers.com @JoshuaEstes @ScenicCityLabs @ChattDevelopers "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of great memories you could otherwise be making."

=============================================================== From: Erik Hanson ------------------------------------------------------ Eclipse FTW

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Hi. I am a Ruby developer who has used Ruby to automate Unix-centric tasks without Rails, or for that matter, any gem at all. We call this problem ".NET Syndrome..."

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ I hate to say it (for I prefer Netbeans) is try out Eclipse - I know it is adding Ruby support soon. On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 16:26, Cameron Kilgore wro= te: --=20 " ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we=E2=80=99re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aar= on Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead" - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Sterling, Virginia USA

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ Yeah, you can still do everything else with Ruby like.... well... merb? ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ vim ftw ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ It's a shame that this sentiment is so common among non-rails developers, because Ruby is an incredibly rich language. It just doesn't really have anything going for it outside of being a great language. I think Rails and EventMachine are about it. Languages need good tools built-in or extended in the community to be worth the time to learn them, imho. ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Micah Breedlove ------------------------------------------------------ no, no... netbeans with the jVi plugin... ftw :) Micah Breedlove DruiD628 email: micah@druid628.com web: http://www.druid628.com twitter: @druid628

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ Why all the Rails hate? Admittedly I don't know very much about it, but from what I've seen it can ease the development of some kinds of web applications given that you have some understanding of what it's doing behind the scenes.

=============================================================== From: wes ------------------------------------------------------ in this case, it's not the game, it's the players. people who like rails act like people who like .NET. -wes

=============================================================== From: Joshua Estes ------------------------------------------------------ Here's my issue with Rails and the Rails community in generally. [begin rant] Back in the day I remember the transition from Perl to PHP. I use to make web apps with Perl. Then PHP came along and I thought it would never catch on. Guess who was wrong about that? ;p So now here comes this new language call Ruby on Rails that is suppose to make creating web apps easy! Now I thought back to the time when I used Perl and put off learning about PHP for the longest. I decided it would be in my best interest to learn a little about this awesome new language called Ruby on Rails. I kept hearing the buzz about this new language called rails that will put php to shame and take over the web as the number one programming language. So I started looking into it. More and more I would see people say how they learned this new language in about a week then blog about it how it's so amazing. I looked for articles that compared the language RUBY to the language PHP and all I could find were articles comparing a framework [RAILS] to a language [PHP]. To me a language is a tool. Ruby might be good for one good, but may not be for another. In my personal opinion ruby will never be as popular as php until Rails developers realize that they are using a framework. Php also seems to be easier to place in HTML files. Also the Rails framework forces the programmer to use good design patterns which make the application easier to maintain. The framework also comes with features and functions that help the programmer program. Those are features of the framework. So in conclusion I will leave you with a bullet point list the summarizes why I be hate'n * Most articles I read about Rails is by people that have been using it for less then a month and thinks it's better than [insert programming language here] * Most Rails developers don't realize that they are using a framework and like to compare apples and oranges and compare framework features to a programming language. * Most do not understand good programming practices until they are given a framework that forces them to. * Languages are tools, some people will try to use a dime as a screwdriver. It works, but it's not as good as a screwdriver. - Joshua Estes http://www.ScenicCityLabs.com http://www.ChattanoogaDevelopers.com @JoshuaEstes @ScenicCityLabs @ChattDevelopers "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of great memories you could otherwise be making."

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ Quit yer bitchin' and just use Perl on Rails then. -Eric -=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-= =3D- Eric B. Wolf =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 720-334-77= 34 o y! t ng and is nd e be s ier lp izes or e a r. ose ut 't k. oks. a great e: type of gonna o stop o f great m ck to

=============================================================== From: Joshua Estes ------------------------------------------------------ lol Don't tell anyone, but I mostly use symfony *cough* based on RoR *cough* ;p - Joshua Estes http://www.ScenicCityLabs.com http://www.ChattanoogaDevelopers.com @JoshuaEstes @ScenicCityLabs @ChattDevelopers "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of great memories you could otherwise be making."

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ Just a guess.... frameworks tend to suck? To some degree or other... Java and .NET for two examples. Also, for the casual programmer, you don't find much about Ruby w/o Rails included. At least, that was the case when I last looked at it. It didn't fill any niches I needed filling at the time, and the whole "active record" concept scales pretty not so much. So no need to add YAPL that Dave abuses/d :) Regards, dtb

=============================================================== From: Adam Jimerson ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ryan Bales wrote: +1 for vim, I don't see a point in GUI IDEs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1CHyoACgkQsK1mqepTLy+E3ACgzl2uoQxsvjtvXxec7Q1jdE8b d+cAoJ0UIFgHHpK90vZ0E/dN1u9028cQ =dZ6l -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ No GUI IDE that I've worked with (disclaimer: I have not really given textmate an honest shot, because I only use a mac at work) has the power and extensibility of vim. With buffer explorer, there's no real need for a browser, :e works just fine for directory traversal and file selection, the shell is a few keystrokes away at any time, regular expression search/replace in any buffer with a few keystrokes, and on and on. I love vim. ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ =46rom what little bit I know about Ruby (and I'm learning more), seems = like it can be pretty useful in the right circumstance. I know very = little about it right now. I was EXTREMELY put off by Obie Fernandez and Yehuda Katz (the Rails = evangelists) at POSSCON last year -- during their presentation on Rails = 3.0 they took about 8 or 10 "potshots" at PHP and PHP programmers and = how much better Ruby on Rails was than PHP and how Rails applications = were so much more scalable than PHP applications....and actually cited = Twitter as a prime example of how scalable Rails applications are = (cough, cough....isn't Twitter moving away from Rails because of = "scalability" issues???? IDK). I personally think the Rails team has = some self esteem issues if the only way they can defend the merits of = Rails is to take potshots at what they perceive as the competition. = Just my 2 cents worth. But that's Rails, not Ruby. I think Rails has its usefulness, just like CakePHP, Symfony, Zend and = other PHP frameworks. Its not a be-all end-all. textmate an honest shot, because I only use a mac at work) has the power = and extensibility of vim. With buffer explorer, there's no real need = for a browser, :e works just fine for directory traversal and file = selection, the shell is a few keystrokes away at any time, regular = expression search/replace in any buffer with a few keystrokes, and on = and on. I love vim. wrote:

=============================================================== From: "Lucius L. Hilley III" ------------------------------------------------------ Looks like a we have a few crazies that like the sadistic use of vim. Count me amongst them. :) Unkmar - Lucius L. Hilley III

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Isn't Twitter the home of the Fail Whale? I don't understand much about that scale of scalability issues, but I do understand that the framework and language such a systems interfaces are built in is probably less important that how they were used, and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc.. and people. I'm reading "Hackers and Painters" (a book, on paper), http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Painters-Big-Ideas-Computer/dp/0596006624 Which sure touts the advantages of Lisp. As I read his examples what I see is a group of very smart people whom worked well together and understood what their tools could (and could not) do. While Lisp was a good hammer, their skill in using it was a larger factor.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ but I do understand that the framework and language such a systems interfaces are built in is probably less important that how they were used, and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc.. and people. Twitter uses Ruby and Rails for the front-end, but they are now using Scala, a middle-man language that compiles to JVM to handle almost everything going on behind-the-scenes. It's easier for them (and most sane people) to scale on JVM over having to write new components to do it with Ruby. Hell, JRuby is how we scaled Knetwit across a few machines. It was a lot cleaner.

=============================================================== From: Flushy ------------------------------------------------------ I've heard crazy things about lisp. Good things. Self modifying things. Runt= ime code generation macros. The thing that gets me is all those damn parenthesis. --b gelists) at POSSCON last year -- during their presentation on Rails 3.0 they= took about 8 or 10 "potshots" at PHP and PHP programmers and how much bette= r Ruby on Rails was than PHP and how Rails applications were so much more sc= alable than PHP applications....and actually cited Twitter as a prime exampl= e of how scalable Rails applications are (cough, cough....isn't Twitter movi= ng away from Rails because of "scalability" issues???? IDK). I personally t= hink the Rails team has , and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc..

=============================================================== From: Flushy ------------------------------------------------------ For all the crap people give java, it sure does pop up everywhere. --b , and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc.. a, a middle-man language that compiles to JVM to handle almost everything go= ing on behind-the-scenes. It's easier for them (and most sane people) to sca= le on JVM over having to write new components to do it with Ruby. leaner. elists) at POSSCON last year -- during their presentation on Rails 3.0 they t= ook about 8 or 10 "potshots" at PHP and PHP programmers and how much better R= uby on Rails was than PHP and how Rails applications were so much more scala= ble than PHP applications....and actually cited Twitter as a prime example o= f how scalable Rails applications are (cough, cough....isn't Twitter moving a= way from Rails because of "scalability" issues???? IDK). I personally thin= k the Rails team has , and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc..

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Those boats do not pay for themselves. (so very NSFW) (also all that AS400 legacy code we didn't write in RPG)

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ Still one of my favorite xkcd's http://xkcd.com/297/ ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Flushy ------------------------------------------------------ Perfect Placement! --b ntime code generation macros. angelists) at POSSCON last year -- during their presentation on Rails 3.0 th= ey took about 8 or 10 "potshots" at PHP and PHP programmers and how much bet= ter Ruby on Rails was than PHP and how Rails applications were so much more s= calable than PHP applications....and actually cited Twitter as a prime examp= le of how scalable Rails applications are (cough, cough....isn't Twitter mov= ing away from Rails because of "scalability" issues???? IDK). I personally= think the Rails team has ed, and how they work with server farms, bandwidth, mirrors.. etc..

=============================================================== From: flushy ------------------------------------------------------ You've obviously never used Eclipse. And yes, I do use vim.