Didn't want EPB anyway

From: William Roush 
------------------------------------------------------
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/07/congresswoman-defends-states-rights-to-protect-isps-from-muni-competition/

-- 
William Roush
william.roush@roushtech.net
423-463-0592

http://www.roushtech.net/blog/



=============================================================== From: Nate Hill ------------------------------------------------------ Howsabout this comment at the bottom of the article: "I woke up this morning because my cell phone alarm went off. The cell phone was charged because it was powered by a regulated power grid. I drove to work safely on publicly regulated roads and crossed the bridge because of publicly mandated repairs. I didn't get into an accident because of publicly mandated traffic and car safety rules. I had a drink of water that didn't infect me with some sort of deadly bacteria because of a publicly regulated water supply. But I'll be damned if I get more than 7.5mbps out of my privately controlled DSL line, with no other option. Private internet ain't working. Government does a lot of necessary things pretty well. No reason not to let em try doing the ISP thing." On Wednesday, July 16, 2014, William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ It's Marsha Blackburn what else is there to say? ----- William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ This sounds familiar... http://www.copypasta.info/2010/03/socialism.html This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly, regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food which has been determined as safe by the food and drug administration. At the appropriate time as kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved car and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the departmental of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, I drive back to my house which has not been burned down thanks to to the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and it has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log onto the internet, which was developed by the US department of defense, and post on the free public access website 4chan about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right. Seriously. Just STFU.

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Comment #9 seems a valid response. Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTyCfvAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdZ0kH+QG3jFlQTtKbIMt4TEhyTKVC Djb1Q+Q0dLAQ8Zt6cb4zdh83C0DehngbQs7WgVWIQ3ge5uZpDJXZ3ZLih4xJY7y4 q2l+YU+QOJge6W/thSbBXVsQhtkSdFwmw0G19C2xNql6V7pgFwrSvnFcfRcoU4Ig 9H2EBhljGTxY9F+vqDqOmvjtxrg0g0BraoKReKgouPk5NYH7Eal1vqtFkyr6VpoP eRWwKQrgnHSB+bdXPhUzqnYwtQFaXn5ThXGPiYr+auQjRBhfnz6yu7V2C/oixJqP Dkd1KjUy3sZKvdifAAdg8+5ydVewoLXY/Lp7O/0mUTbS+1QoH1Sk/00zVjx5hxU= =Pn08 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Only if the point sails clear over your head: A vast amount of Americans don't constantly argue that Sony is unable to produce any products that work.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ FALSE. They are called Xbox Fanboys. *- Chad W. Smith* On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:57 PM, William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Listen, Sony is amazing. Need I link the last E3? (We don't talk about E3s prior to that) William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I am not saying Sony can't make products that work--- I am saying there is a large number of Americans who go online to say that Sony cannot make products that work. Personally, I prefer my PS3 to my 360 - and would get a PS4 before I got a Xbox One... if the money tree ever bears fruit in my backyard. The point is - there certainly are people who think that capitalism is just as stupid as other people think socialism is. Also, it was an easy joke... or so I thought. As far as the main subject of the government's ability to get stuff done... there are activities in which our government excels -- and there are others in which they fall woefully short. It seems, IMHO, that the stuff they are good at they have been doing for a very long time. The stuff they are not so good at are recent additions to their workload. Adding more stuff for them to have to deal with doesn't seem like a wise decision. *- Chad W. Smith* On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:04 PM, William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Um, the FCC's regulatory powers have largely been stripped. Not a valid comparison, and right now we actually NEED a better and unbiased FCC.

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Quoting Stephen Kraus : I'm with you, Stephen. It seems the Supreme Court would prefer to have a wide-open internet with no regulation so that their cronies at TW and Comcast and AT&T can make money selling end users access to websites and websites access to end users. That way they make TWICE the money they used to when they were only selling website/email/etc access to end users. Poor AT&T, Comcast, and Time Warner (and let us not forget Verizon) don't make any money selling internet access. :(

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ While I agree that these groups do exist, I would think to say that the former is anywhere near as large as the later in our country is a bit laughable. Do you think EPB's smart grid/fiber to the home was not a wise decision? I do agree that the government can't tackle a lot of things (and a lot of factors including to what extent and what level of government and the scale of the proposed solution), but I think that judgement should be made on a case-by-case basis and not a blanket "well I /feel/ it can't work". William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ EPB's financial statements show they can lay down fiber to the home, provide gigabit for $70/mo, not have close to a majority share in the market, and still pay down the debits (plus interest) with little effort, while providing better customer service and not playing this double dipping con game, it's INFURIATING that people continue to support this charade they put on. On one hand: I want to not care and let people reap what they sow. On the other hand, even on EPB, we're going to suffer from the bigger players squeezing the internet for every penny it can drop, EPB and Google Fiber can't keep Netflix (and similar services) alive alone, we'll deal with the fallout too. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 4:01 PM, William Roush wrote: Not really. California and New York have large numbers of people ... and so do many major cities outside of the Deep South and SouthWest. (Disclosure - I moved to Saint Louis, MO a little over 7 years ago. Things are different up here.) Do you think EPB's smart grid/fiber to the home was not a wise decision? Can't say - again, I don't live in the Chattanooga area anymore. But it does sound like it has been a good idea. The thing is, though, the EPB is barely "The Government" - and certainly isn't the Federal Government=E2=84=A2. Things like the US Postal Service t= hat are run more like a company than an agency tend to do a lot better than pure government type stuff. le True - but I think the default should be "Let's *not* have the government do this." rather than "The Government should do this!". There should be a clear reason why it is important for this New Thing=E2=84= =A2 to be the government's responsibility rather than "meh - let the Feds handle it." -Chad

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:09 PM, William Roush wrote: Yes. And "free market" arguments might have credibility if AT&T and Comcast's entire success hadn't been predicated on quashing any free market. And for good measure: Level 3 points out that they'd love to pay the few tens of thousands of dollars it'd cost for Verizon to upgrade their peering capacity to handle NetFlix. And it might even just be a few cables. http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accidental-mea-culpa/?sf28651657=1 Dan

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Minor correction, they do not provide Gigabit for $70/month. And I would have to qualify the market. I would suspect they are at majority share of commercial connections in their service area, if not, very close to? I can count the Business CC circuits from clients, friends, and acquaintances that I am aware of, and they are all on the same hand. Data circuits CC requires for PRI bundles are not included, and anything not directly required to light the PRI is unplugged. For another WTF moment, you did see Blackburn's proposal passed the house? http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/07/congresswoman-defends-states-rights-to-protect-isps-from-muni-competition/ Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTyEVVAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdul8H/13N1zx+9HGPL+VmfsM95Qa2 D2wCFj/hfbDJrItPWwdIOz2ntJ1PWX5ulj496jyhyhCqbhn2FOtjm5iJMIthIeCL VXPmKIx8lIu8VhVDKDvYdUA2fZdpk2opc07NvZ0ZoplptG1nWZSGsrCLwkpjJ/L1 hP7dr8TouPzdhzjQJ7/pj4ACUg1KLnjafmctUN0eZhu6pYXFLkn7S+suYMzb09LX tzLzbKRiIFbkiE+vM7JyraWfnbzQda+f9ndZ1WlaZ4cI/jwQO/ipdLWpV6F+BgG6 BuZPIiywvIEfPyvH3YwHadQi/l5IhLMLptdr7wnjviM7UYtFiuEabO6Fvwc4wd8= =wnKD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ https://epbfi.com/gigsupport/ Huh? Am I missing something? EPB released a map recently and I was surprised how low market penetration is in some areas. While I don't expect businesses on things like Comcast, I do expect them to be with ISPs like Windstream. Who are the insane people not on EPB? I have no clue. http://projects.timesfreepress.com/2014/05/epb/gig

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Lived in California most of my life as much as the movies and stereotypes portray, it's not a socialist paradise... :\ Remember: they couldn't get prop 8 to pass. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ On top of that: there /are /start up ISPs out there, it's not like they don't exist. You got two kinds: kinds that rent local loops from AT&T and their like, which are going to have all the same pricing and infrastructure problems as the big players (and the only reason these exist is because of the government forcing them to rent their local loops), and the ones that can scrounge the hundreds of millions required to lay new infrastructure around cities and acquire easements (which honestly on the easement discussion: what is the alternative?), and honestly it's up to large companies like Google to pull off projects like that in the industry. The problem isn't that the market isn't free enough, it's that it isn't like your local mom and pop can start up and ISP no matter if it's the freest it could possibly be, the start up costs are /insane/. Arguably you could say in a free market ISPs wouldn't be forced to rent their local loops to anyone but other ISPs that want to play by their game. I do love Level 3 calling out Verizon though. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:25 PM, William Roush wrote: And in fact I currently work for one. That's laying its own fiber, and that also rents loops from AT&T. And the tax structures and telecom regulations and the issues of trying to work with a recalcitrant AT&T are a freakin' nightmare. Dan

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ I don't really get what your main defining line is there, other than scale (which honestly, corporations have the same issues of additional bureaucracy and overhead as they scale, just governments have piles of it from a much longer history of it at a much larger scale than any corporation). I agree that feet on the ground getting work done should be handled by local governments, it generally seems best that way because they're much more invested in doing things decently, but trying to say that EPB doesn't qualify as government is kind of silly in my opinion (and seems like a twist on the "no true Scotsman" argument, EPB can't be government because well... it worked). Again what are the real differences there? I keep hearing garbage about how terrible USPS is regardless of their P&L (you know, before congress forced them to reserve 75 years of pensions up front so we could trash talk USPS' budget) and statistics on solid package delivery, so not everyone believes they're not just run like another government agency. Again are they not a government agency because... well it worked? To be honest a lot of the things people complain about in government (good retirement benefits, decent pay, hard to be fired, bureaucracy that'll bury a house) are all (somewhat valid) complaints about USPS. I agree on that, action should be based on justification, with inaction being the default, but that's pretty much across the board on any decision (government, business, personal, etc.). Change needs reason and evidence as to why it's a good idea (unless you don't care about consequences of a poor decision). And this kind of comes full circle with above (out of control/inefficient bureaucracies): government /and/ companies both take the stance of "well it's still working" when it comes to fixing a ton of problems, I don't know how you fix what seems to be a deeply engrained cultural problem with how we handle our work.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ *- Chad W. Smith* On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 5:46 PM, William Roush wrote: EPB is a for-profit business. Just like the Post Office. They are associated with the government - but they are not the government. From: https://about.usps.com/publications/pub100/pub100

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Of course regulatory capture is used as an argument that the system is broken, hence we should go to free markets. Again -- the more I hear people's opinion on things, the more I think they deserve the outcomes, considering the situation we're in right now is thanks to the last generation's piss poor "my feelings" opinion on how government should be run more business friendly, we

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Free Markets are a myth dude. You don't live in the 1700s and run a stall in the local town. You live in the 2000s, in the age of multinational conglomerates and digital trading. The idea that a large fortune 500 company is going to play 'fair' in an unregulated market is so laughable, you'd have to ignore every major financial scandal for the last 100 years. On Jul 18, 2014 4:37 AM, "William Roush" wrote:

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Tell that to the people who continue to parrot that it's the solution to everything. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: DaWorm ------------------------------------------------------ The people that are calling for "Free Markets" aren't calling for that specifically, as Stephen is right about that being a myth. Perhaps they should say "Freer Markets" instead. And that you can't argue against with glib statements about the 1700's and think you've made a point, because all you've done is knocked down a straw man. Not trying to be insulting, but I see this all the time and it touches a nerve. "Reductio ad absurdum" and all that. The question isn't 100% free vs. 100% regulated. A completely unregulated market is essentially anarchy, and no one with any sense wants that, any more than anyone with sense wants all business to be state owned and controlled. What is needed is a way to ensure consumer protection without being a barrier to doing business. That's not really possible as in many ways those work at cross purposes. So there has to be give and take. I'm not convinced we have anything close to the optimum balance right now. Plus, you can't make blanket statements about "free markets" for other reasons. While I might be fine with less regulation in some industries, there are others that I think need more regulation. Each industry is different, and making (or relaxing) rules covering all of them because they are needed for some of them often does as much damage as good.

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Got it, people have never asked for the market to regulate itself (Ignore the last two elections and the large following gathering entirely around this concept). I'm straw-manning and no major groups of the American public have ever argued that the FCC shouldn't be involved /whatsoever /in free enterprises on the internet. It doesn't exist and never happened. :| I'm wrong to call out that blind belief in an economic system is silly and that analysis of each individual situation at hand is required. One of my biggest gripes about some really poor perception around the whole issue is that it isn't like people like Blackburn are oppressing the entire public with an iron fist, when the reality is that there is a significant portion of our public that finds these kinds of behaviors of our state government fine, we should be protecting free enterprise against the mean Federal government! I find the cry that we're being oppressed over the FCC issues ignorant at best, dishonest at worst, there are lots of people who believe that the FCC handing the internet to corporations a good thing. That is not "Reductio ad absurdum", claiming that there are conflicting viewpoints and we're not just being oppressed and not listened to is not a logical fallacy. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: David Snyder ------------------------------------------------------ As a legitimate "free market" CLEC operating on the borders of the EPB service area let me give you my perspective. My company, RevTel, LLC (The CLEC associated with my ISP, VOLstate, Inc., in business since 1996). I can assure you that EPB is not a true "competitor". Rather EPB is a Government Subsidized entity that has interrupted a market that was getting more competitive. My company is postponing further investment in building fiber in Dayton until it is resolved whether or not the FCC will pre-empt state law and allow EPB outside of its municipal boundaries. You should know that if EPB does expand outside its boundaries it opens up the citizens of Chattanooga to increased risk that EPB will not be profitable and will fall back on the ratepayers of the EPB electric system. EPB fiber was financed via the Electric Dept. side of the house. The majority of the $290M used to build the system was categorized as "smart grid", not fiber optic communications. Those bond payments are "hidden" in your electric rates. Further EPB was given $111M of Federal tax dollars by the dept. of energy. Those costs are also hidden in your federal tax rates...or, more likely, will be paid for by future generations of yet to be born citizens as the country doesn't have any money to spend. We borrow all of it. VOLstate and RevTel, LLC are hardly "big business". We are a small company with 8 employees and an office in Cleveland and Dayton. We very much want to continue building our fiber network in Dayton but it would not be prudent to do so if the Government is going to take over with its own monopoly replacing the old monopoly of AT&T. I'm no fan of AT&T and the Big Cable Companies. My company slogan is "Outsmart the Big Phone Company". Giving up and crying for the Government to provide this service is a long term fail and will result in the biggest, most unfair monopoly of all - Government Control. -----Original Message----- From: chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org [mailto:chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org] On Behalf Of Dave Brockman Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:51 PM To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Didn't want EPB anyway -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Minor correction, they do not provide Gigabit for $70/month. And I would have to qualify the market. I would suspect they are at majority share of commercial connections in their service area, if not, very close to? I can count the Business CC circuits from clients, friends, and acquaintances that I am aware of, and they are all on the same hand. Data circuits CC requires for PRI bundles are not included, and anything not directly required to light the PRI is unplugged. For another WTF moment, you did see Blackburn's proposal passed the house? http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/07/congresswoman-defends-states-rights-to-protect-isps-from-muni-competition/ Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTyEVVAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdul8H/13N1zx+9HGPL+VmfsM95Qa2 D2wCFj/hfbDJrItPWwdIOz2ntJ1PWX5ulj496jyhyhCqbhn2FOtjm5iJMIthIeCL VXPmKIx8lIu8VhVDKDvYdUA2fZdpk2opc07NvZ0ZoplptG1nWZSGsrCLwkpjJ/L1 hP7dr8TouPzdhzjQJ7/pj4ACUg1KLnjafmctUN0eZhu6pYXFLkn7S+suYMzb09LX tzLzbKRiIFbkiE+vM7JyraWfnbzQda+f9ndZ1WlaZ4cI/jwQO/ipdLWpV6F+BgG6 BuZPIiywvIEfPyvH3YwHadQi/l5IhLMLptdr7wnjviM7UYtFiuEabO6Fvwc4wd8= =wnKD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Because even if EPB got blocked from fiber to the home, they'd still be laying the smart grid for the electrical system, smart grid and $290m spent was going to happen either way. Which on that subject: what was the maturity rate on those bonds? William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: David Snyder ------------------------------------------------------ Perhaps. But that just shows that Government isn't looking after your dollars the way a "real" business would. The "smart grid" is possible with wireless radio and is much more cost effective than laying fiber. It also works via using the existing copper power lines and hopping over the transformers via wireless. The fiber was the most expensive option and only makes sense if it is going to do "double duty". Everyone knows the primary purpose was communications. It is just a "wink" and a "nod" that it is ever presented as infrastructure for primary purpose of "the smart grid". I don't remember when the bonds mature. Soon this list will begin telling us to get back on topic ..... VOLstate is a happy linux user now for 19 years... -----Original Message----- From: chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org [mailto:chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org] On Behalf Of William Roush Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:28 AM To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Didn't want EPB anyway Because even if EPB got blocked from fiber to the home, they'd still be laying the smart grid for the electrical system, smart grid and $290m spent was going to happen either way. Which on that subject: what was the maturity rate on those bonds? William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ This sounds very much like a "feels" response. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: DaWorm ------------------------------------------------------ the last two elections and the large following gathering entirely around this concept). Demagogues do what they do, and some people follow. My comment was on the idea that "Free Market" = "No Holds Barred" when that isn't the general case. Maybe it has been in the specific case of the FCC and net neutrality. I for one don't think the FCC should be off the internet entirely. I also don't think they are in any way oppressing me. Like with all government entities, I personally think less is usually better than more, but unlike some people I don't think zero is better than some.

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ Sounds like the complaint wasn't entirely directed at you then. ;P I understand it's a sliding rule between freedom and control and the discussion on where it should lie can be an interesting one (and varies on subject and application), but you talk to people and you find that many don't, and those are writing their representatives. :\ William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: William Roush ------------------------------------------------------ I'm very interested in the implications of this from someone that deals with wireless tech on that scale. As far as their smart grid, SDG&E also uses fiber (though they do have some 900MGz radio for supervisory control and data acquisition), I wonder who if anyone runs fully wireless for control. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: David Snyder ------------------------------------------------------ Mike Harrison knows all about smart meters and grids. -----Original Message----- From: chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org [mailto:chugalug-bounces@chugalug.org] On Behalf Of William Roush Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 3:04 PM To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Didn't want EPB anyway I'm very interested in the implications of this from someone that deals with wireless tech on that scale. As far as their smart grid, SDG&E also uses fiber (though they do have some 900MGz radio for supervisory control and data acquisition), I wonder who if anyone runs fully wireless for control. William Roush william.roush@roushtech.net 423-463-0592 http://www.roushtech.net/blog/

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Do you have any citations or evidence to support your viewpoint that competition was/is increasing in Chattanooga before EPB's fiber build-out? Because I have been very aware of my Internet connectivity options in Chattanooga since I moved here in 1998. I have many, many fewer choices today than I did in 1998. And I don't consider 50Mb for $1000/month competitive, which I can get today from a different carrier, but that is much, much better than the $3500/month for 25MB MetroI that BS was offering at the time EPB began their build-out. Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTyYKnAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdIqkH/17TGddWARLu9YqE7SWa80i3 3LIlZR1ER0vRjJq+uQuNjnMS3Mq9iOwkLTKqxKNvB6CPivpn5D5bDczFY08XA95X 5ng7r7a7gtHkrcseLv+7Obn1OyTthxIRZ/o3m6oROrhBJrywmte355VQGZ5iPoaz 3mcEQ2Oj6LSaQDLI6+XRexmeF0uZH/Sj/M7okUpmocaPYyrB5g59RWqIN++ocDmy HAUjazra1qKC+0enl509HZ0uOyHNVUz/ALhUYw8Y1tL4yUmJ2O4LLMWRctaQQd7s 1+2A8ceIjoBB2wYefQiyt1Iyi2eRaiP8MVPDm+vRMeiD5+0AXnSionDfQh5cVnM= =gme/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ You'd be surprised. There are a few restaurants I know who went with comcast. And you have have a comcast account to use their WiFI. I don't know what they were thinking. ----- William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I encourage all CC customers (bless their hearts) to immediately disconnect that additional belkin WiFi equipment CC installed on premise without permission. Way to plug up that already pitifully limited upstream on DOCIS. Comshaftic I tell ya. Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTybjLAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdqnEIAKD1R+IhRNoHEujbasxlAyTF pcMDtqhEJaHqtw1MMBNrZNHQgpIWkj9hvdFQV0e29Zkj2wxstLoDxqq4q0xrp27M OTj7aakeohSryBlbaspyDKuJdHWOHGDMIxgYpRORCXwkwnLpruhSQX/JZLI/NX4a ov4hZ8asEGVYeQvnDMv3OD+q/oYsY11b7/XgaLHomBFpAzRhDG9Pp6tTyZjMNHAQ Nt6svdYLUAkGsCwtrFfP4lcHzv8VXCX5odbz6KGKC8gLx7OEpmxCb2HX7gJ1PUgi 2u4bW3L/gBUdRfwNhc996fONigWxaXUu8/8oVg19qkfnSJMEPdySeVLCruHMpYI= =VsZT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Governments have been setting the rules for the market since the days of Ancient Egypt. Weights and measures, creating calendars so farmers know when to plant, how much gold and silver are in the coins, and who can strike those coins and exchange them, are all examples of governments setting the rules. Look at broadcasting before the FCC. Stations change frequencies daily and stomped on each other all the time. Not unlike CB radio wars today. Governments are systems for adjudicating conflicts of rights and privileges. Such as in the medieval period did that peasant or Lord have right to hunt in the Kings Forest. The Lord maybe. The peasant hell no. Only thing that has changed is our theories on what equitable distribution of power and privilege. ----- William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ I would remind you that there have suggestions we privatize the National Weather Service. Usually by people who don't realize that it couldn't do the job without the infrastructure that NOAA has. Who in the Market can afford to subsidize NOAA's satellites and buoys. Who in the Market would be able to work military weather observers? ----- William Roush wrote:

=============================================================== From: Unkmar ------------------------------------------------------ Yes he does. You can not imagine the bandwidth needed for a fully monitored smart grid. Much fiber was going to be laid, with or without fiber to the home. Wireless can't handle the traffic levels envisioned for the smart grid. Former Utiliflex employee. Lucius L. Hilley III - unkmar