OT: MacBook for sale. Too cheap?

From: Stephen Haywood 
I just found this on Craigslist. I'm trying to decide if the owner doesn't
know how much it's worth or if it's stolen.

 2012 Apple Macbook Pro 15 inch retina screen - $1000
 2012 Apple Macbook Pro 15 inch retina screen

2.6 ghz intel i7
2012 model
15 inch retina diplay
8 gb of ram
includes box, charger, and disks.
Stephen Haywood
Owner, ASG Consulting

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 /shrug. $1000 is more than I would pay for a year+ old used laptop with 15" display and only 8GB of RAM. That Apple sticker may have some value to you, however, so please adjust your pricing accordingly. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSgptJAAoJEMP+wtEOVbcdw8gH/2qkv2Q81Me1otLhcTRpW/+K c2Brl+12psVGT797I7a5iRq56ODha+PXJk46kKJvTAzeBfh6XyibuqR428OgiWp/ 4dNGTLCMs+Cnd8GX3LTHz8+IBbHOjjq+Wlg+mOXz8ngajPP9uy0cfQ1J8FQWFipT q9kpnbudLGY5i4Fwy4S/79mnabilZ/R6vXiIopLTZ858DRQdhBwZy1ycwbBiqZmO uKjXHwxvorOxFUZPIIVCQDccMxQNUGQogu08+10UFRJnKEF2S8TNfFdhWK/myyG7 hRw89aVnrlnVkY1B4muaYxtURPQdivEYUNsa6fsiEzdUNE4zX5Pw9JLBg3sirRY= =az9a -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC976LL/A/refurbished-macbook-pro-26ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display $1899 refurb from Apple with 512GB SSD. The 256GB to 512GB upgrade is $300. So if it is legit, then you are saving about $600 off new. Applecare adds about $350 to the cost of the item and should be required as repairs on these things is pricey. -AW

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Apparently Apple doesn't know how to factor in depreciation for the price of their sticker. Way more than I would pay for a year+ old used laptop. Regardless of the age of the sticker. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSgp24AAoJEMP+wtEOVbcd2O0H/RsSmNr3fMqVQNvb6SVhYOGL d574LlT4+Ho4Gpi0UM5krAvp528+EU9xP79M6BfJwf8G/M/g1CHzOyte1M610vVc cHjReVNJlpBRxwP6kiwVFusj7wr2JSs0DLgUm4gfuksg4+260sWXhIq8ktM4zuEu fLJglccI511dcQUy0j4R3osssuIG0pG6x21lhS7kIbJiZ5dFX/wtUg7QBdSpfjCd bx4dLNgYwtGovjtU5udvtAgdLUuRbL2JuUQZj3XClYKbI/MAkv5ABIIuH2sYkauh cBoi0UiaM5UxRSpe+QKvGD3yri6zxFeVEs+Vd83GObTGMOO10TgvheW3Tl+5KKA= =SIZU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ $1000 seems a little low. A quick eBay check says $1699-$1899. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Laptop-Retina-Display-2-6ghz-i= 7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Apple sellers tend to over value their hardware because the Apple brand demands a hefty price, and people will pay it. Not that I would, for that much dough I'd get an ASUS Republic of Gamers or something with more guts. -i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ The links I gave were Completed/Sold listings. -=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-= =3D- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Stephen Kraus wro= te: z-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ I sold a two year old Macbook Pro for $1700. It originally cost me $2400. They hold their value much better than other computers. I'm no Mac fanboy and I think they are too pricey, but when you factor in their resale value, it's almost worth it. -=3D- rote: hz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I didn't say they don't sell. Either way, for price you can get a LOT more hardware elsewhere in another format. -=3D- rote: hz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Jason Griffey ------------------------------------------------------ Ok, I'm gonna bite on this one: So: show me an example of a LOT more hardware (same i7, same RAM or more, same build quality (metal/aluminium unibody construction) with a 15 inch screen at 220dpi for $1000...in a laptop, of course. Hell, for $1500. What would your suggestion be? Jason On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Stephen Kraus wrot= e: r =3D-=3D- wrote: s ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ http://dft.ba/-7ayU Don't know about the DPI rating, but this is the same model laptop I bought earlier this year. It's a fantastic rig. t ote: =3D-=3D- d 6ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Amazon says the screen on that Samsung is 1600 x 900 at 15.6" (118 dpi). The MBP Retina is 2880 by 1800 at 15.4" (221 dpi). That's a pretty big difference - almost twice as much. *- Chad W. Smith* : , at rote: =3D-=3D- -6ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Dan Eveland ------------------------------------------------------ This might be a minor mistake: "includes box, charger, and disks" There are no "disks" for it. It has no CD/DVD drive at all. Dan : 15 00. wrote: -=3D-=3D- 2-6ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ The Samsung has an optical drive. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NP700Z5B-S01UB-i7-2675QM-2-2GHz-Silver/dp/B00= 7IJPVP0 *- Chad W. Smith* e: 15 500. --=3D-=3D- -2-6ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ btw - in case you don't have the formula for calculating DPI memorized - there's a neat little webapp / website I just found for finding that. http://dpi.lv/ just put in the resolution and screen size in inches, and boom. *- Chad W. Smith* 007IJPVP0 . g te: a 15 1500. =3D--=3D-=3D- y-2-6ghz-i7-8gb-256-10-cycles-LOADED-/281205034009?pt=3DApple

=============================================================== From: Jason Griffey ------------------------------------------------------ It is plastic, and as Chad noted, the screen isn't even remotely close to the same quality. Slightly slower clockspeed on the processor (probably not enough to ever notice, but there it is). What's the battery life like? The Samsung is a fine computer, but I don't think you can reasonably compare the build quality to the macbook pro. Apple makes

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-17-3-laptop-12gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive= -black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&ci

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Quoting Chad Smith : Yep. But do you NEED that high a resolution?

=============================================================== From: Nick Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Yes.

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ The Razer is a piece of sh!t that is useless without attaching a bunch of accessories to it so that it is functional. Speaking as a former owner and current owner of the Razer Blade that is also a POS. -AW On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Stephen Kraus wro= te: ve-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&ci

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Great. We'll there's a gaming netbook someone's making nd rote: ive-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&ci=

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Yes. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Rod ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:28:37 -0500, Stephen Kraus wrote:

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ To mash up Bill Gates and Stephen Kraus: Please tell me what you do that even remotely needs 640K of RAM? -=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-= =3D- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 ve-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&ci

=============================================================== From: Dan Eveland ------------------------------------------------------ I have retina displays on my phone, tablet and laptop. No way would I volunt= arily go back.=20 Looking at regular displays is like watching regular TV after nothing but HD= . You don't notice how much better HD is until you go back. Same for retina d= isplays.=20 The type is just wonderful on retina displays. Real fonts. No compromises. P= erfect curves and subtle hairlines. Beautiful. A pleasure to use.=20 Dan :

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Now that's just pedantic. -=3D- ive-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&ci=

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Actually, you made a false statement about HD movies - passive 3D full HD movies require 2x 1080p (or 1920 x 2160) - which is actually a higher resolution (on one axis) than the MBP Retina display offers. (This is so both eyes - red & green - can get the full 1080p pixels) Not to mention the fact that 4K is coming. And, for the record, I use Photoshop almost everyday on my MacBook Pro. However, my display isn't retina - I wish it was, but I didn't want to give up my optical drive, nor my ability to change out the RAM/Hard Drive/etc.. Personally I hate the design of the Retina Display Macbooks because of how un-repairable/upgradable they are. That doesn't mean the display is pointless. Going back to the original question - I would give you $1000 for that computer right now. :) *- Chad W. Smith* On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Stephen Kraus wro= te: =3D-=3D- rive-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&c= i

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Chad, Source? Every source I find backs that 1920x1080 is the maximum for HD 1080p. The 1920x2160 resolution is SPECIFICALLY for the passive 3d, which is not specifically part of the 1080p standard, so I wasn't really wrong as that is outside of the definition I defined. 4K is on the way, we'll see if it'll get adopted, I'm not willing to speculate if it'll get full adoption or be a gimmick like 3d movies. Still doesn't sell me on the idea that a screen of Retinas resolution is a reason I should consider a Macbook Pro, although I will admit I'm not an Apple fan like you. Too many walled gardens. ve . w rote: =3D-=3D- drive-black/9560016.p?id=3D1219021957327&skuId=3D9560016&ref=3D06&loc=3D01&= ci

=============================================================== From: Unkmar ------------------------------------------------------ I used my 1600x1200 for as long as I could stomach its slow speed. Twice, I attempted moving to a faster laptop. Both times the faster laptop was at 1024x768 or some similar resolution. 1366x768? I was never able to get use to the lower resolution. I didn't migrate to the faster , low resolution laptop. I simply stopped using the slow, high resolution one. My high resolution desktop took over. Now none of it works but my phone and the low resolution laptop. I still won't use the laptop. And most of my work is at terminal inside a GUI. (xterm) PS: This entire message created on my cell phone.

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ My Precision is 1900x1200, but it has decent specs so I won't complain. I have a much higher resolution external display for when I need it.

=============================================================== From: Jeff Leggett ------------------------------------------------------ My 2009 17" MBP went for over $1200 this year when I upgraded to a new 15" MBP/Retina. Say what you want about Apple. NO OTHER TECH HOLDS ITS VALUE LIKE THAT, also just yesterday got $350 for a third gen IPad when I upgraded to the new Air (I did include a full otterbox in that price to be honest). Though I do love my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 right now, I probably would have gotten an iPhone if they'd every up the screen size. I travel for work to stay in Chattanooga, and no other laptop lets do everything I need to do for my work (Information Security), incl running multiple VM's, etc for the same weight. Sure, I could drop the same amt of $$$ on an Alienware laptop or similar, but they WEIGH 15 frikkin lbs! :-D We don't drink the kool aid because we're brainwashed, we drink the kool aid because it tastes good! (I.E. works for what we want it for) If that's legit for $1000, but it and then resell it on Ebay for a profit.

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Thank goodness for resale value, I'll just go visit the local laptop dealership and trade up! Its a computer. While the Apple name may help hold its value, its hardware does not retain its resale value as much. Its not a car, its not like it will forever hold value solely by its purpose alone. "We don't drink the kool aid because we're brainwashed, we drink the kool aid because it tastes good! (I.E. works for what we want it for)" I like this saying, I'm going to borrow it if you don't mind :) I can run multiple VM's on my machine too, the argument that Apple allows you to do it is silly, because Macbooks are still just x86-64 IBM Compatibles. You can do the same thing that you can on an Apple on ANY x86-64 based machine. If Macbooks were still PowerPC machines, maybe this argument might have some value, but since you are really just arguing about a laptop that really isn't any different than any other x86-64 machine out there beyond its external appearance and display, its a rather silly argument.

=============================================================== From: AverageSecurityGuy ------------------------------------------------------ On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Jeff Leggett = wrote: everything I need to do for my work (Information Security), incl running = multiple VM's, etc for the same weight. What specifically do you do in Information Security. -- Stephen Haywood Owner, ASG Consulting CISSP, OSCP 423.305.3700 asgconsulting.co

=============================================================== From: Rod ------------------------------------------------------ While I value the polish of a mac and understand the need of professionals like my wife to use its tool set, I found that this hit home. "I will confess it took me awhile (22 years to be precise), but one day I put down the Kool Aid and realized that Apple was, like North Korea, a totalitarian entity. In other words, once you get drawn into its eco-sytem Apple will control the totality of your technological life (the user "experience" which lets face it, is a very nice one), so it can suck its upgrade tithe out of you every 18-24 months. Apple does this by terrifying their cowering customer/citizens with loss of "support", and lack of new "features". Quick thought experiment: Imagine you bought the Beatles White Album, but in order to keep listening to it every two years you had to buy a completely new record or CD player. And a new copy of the White album, which would have a couple brand new, not very good tracks on it from Sir Paul and Ringo. No one would do it. Why do we tolerate this kind of larceny when it comes to computers and technology? The same reason they do in North Korea: Fear, and the proper conditioning."-PowerPC Liberation, No Laughing Matter 2/24/2013 http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com/2013/02/no-laughing-matter.html

=============================================================== From: Dan Eveland ------------------------------------------------------ I don't know if this analogy really works. I have albums I got on iTunes that I have listened to for a longer period of time than I had a working cassette tape (via iPods from 11 years ago till my iPhone now). My cassette tape system that offered no upgrade path whatsoever. When I got a CD player, I had to re-purchase all my media. Now, I won't have to every re-buy it. I have a 4 year old iMac going strong and it gets used every day, and I don't see it being replaced until it's totally dead. Now, I'll say that some of my devices I have can't do all the shit the latest stuff does, but it's not like any of this suddenly stops working. I don't see it the same way as you, I guess. A dictator will have you shot. A product line available in a marketplace must compete with other similar products. I like my Apple shit because it all works together really, really well. I don't ever have to edit some conf file. The price to switch to another platform would be huge, so I guess in that way it's kinda sucks... but that it true for any platform. Hardware upgrades are expensive on any platform. I love my Linux servers (I have 5 linodes), but would honestly not seriously consider it as an option for my home and family systems. I did for a while. I had a Linux media server, my wife had Ubuntu on her desktop and my oldest daughter still has her Nexus 7 tablet. But after that experience or trying to have a "linux" household, I will stick will Apple because it's just awesome... but I don't feel held hostage to buy every upgrade. Since 2007 I've bought 5 computers, two Linux and 3 Macs, and the three Macs are the ones still running. Of course, it's all just my personal experience and views.