Jelly bean

From: Mike Harrison 
Just upgraded to jelly bean (Android) on my Asus Prime Tablet.

The differences in the email interface alone want me to shout 'hallelujah'. Better interface for threaded emails. Seems much faster. 

Still playing.... 

=============================================================== From: Lee Walker ------------------------------------------------------ Had jelly bean on my nexus 7 since I bought it. Very fast and responsive. Can't believe this is a $200 tablet it's so good. Had jelly bean on my phone, G Nexus, for a couple of weeks, quite impressed so far. With all these discussions on the list about android tablets, I can't see why a nexus 7 isn't just the go-to device for everyone. Unless you want a really cheap (sub $80) device that will never get any support. Our maybe a special use niche device. A nexus device is going to be supported by Google for quite a while which makes the small cost just worth it. Lee Walker Principal Engineer Cell 404 405 1194 Skype l.s.walker Code Journeymen LLC 100 Cherokee Blvd Suite 332 Chattanooga TN 37405

=============================================================== From: Lynn Dixon ------------------------------------------------------ Agreed with you both. I have been running Jelly Bean on my Galaxy Nexus phone since google released the source for it. Its superb. My mom bought a Galaxy Nexus tablet when they launched and loves it. I predict that Android will start gaining ALOT of market share with Jelly BEan and Nexus. Google has a device they can control the user experience on, and have a damn good product now.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ - No expandable memory (MicroSD card slot) - No HDMI out (no video out of any kind) - No rear facing camera - No OTG USB (at least not out of the box) Those really cheap tablets you mentioned come with most, if not all, of those features. The Nook HD has a higher resolution screen and MicroSD card slot and HDMI out (but no camera - either side) The Kindle Fire has HDMI out There are PLENTY of reasons why the Nexus 7 isn't the "go to" tablet for everyone. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ Those really cheap tablets rarely come with all (or most) of those features. They also come with an extremely butchered version of Android and they can't usually be upgraded to a newer version due to the old technology they are built with. Nook and Kindle use a very bad interface for people who are used to smartphones or the default UI of Android. Very few tablets have rear facing cameras - they're tablets, not phones, they're made for a different purpose and because of their larger size, they're not exactly something that you lug around just to take pictures. Expandable memory is not that big of a deal anymore, since most mobile users have already moved on to cloud based storage. It's cheap, its convenient, it doesn't need to be removed or connected to another machine everytime you need to transfer files. It also doesn't wear out after a limited amount of read/write cycles. A lot of cheap tablets don't include HDMI out (or video out of any kind). Because they're tablets. And they're cheap. People don't buy a cheap tablet to output video, they buy it as a novelty because its cheap. OTG USB is not supported by a lot of devices, because no one wants to write or include the drivers. I'm not really sure why that is, as it would be useful. However, with the Nexus 7 running a more pure form of Android than a Kindle, Nook or Chinese knock-off, you'll have a better chance of making that happen. If it helps, I have a stack of 43 tablets of various sizes and manufacturers, some popular brands and some extremely cheap ones, that I actually looked over before replying.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I don't have 43 tablets - but I do have more than one. 6 tablets (and an iPod Touch) - that's not counting the ones I have had and have sold. Those are just the ones I have currently. HDMI is hardly a novelty. I have used it for real-world reasons on numerous occasions. Making a presentation, for example. Watching your Netflix at someone else's house on their HDTV, for another. Playing multi player video games on a big screen with Bluetooth controllers... Cloud based storage is useful, yes, but not for installing applications. And, yes, I have filled up more than one device's on-board storage with nothing but applications. No media, no documents - just apps. And even if most devices don't have the features I listed - that doesn't mean they aren't still reasons to not pick the Nexus. And, you are right, not all cheap tablets have those features - maybe not even most - but in the last 2 months I've either bought or helped someone else buy 3 tablets each under $100 - that had all of those features - USB OTG, MicroSD, HDMI,etc.. (One of the tablets didn't have a rear facing camera.) As far as the operating system goes... The upgrade process has been hit-or-miss, not just for the cheap tablets - but for all the devices I've had. My $200+ Acer Iconia was over 6 months delayed from getting ICS, and I don't think it will ever get an official JellyBean upgrade. But - at less than $100 (sometimes less than $70) I could buy one device now with ICS, and in a year whenever Iced Latte or Snickerdoodle or Birthday Cake comes out - whatever the next Android update is called... I could buy another one, with a faster CPU and other features... And still have spent LESS than I would have spent on a Nexus 7. And I'd still have my original device. Or I could sell it and use that money towards the next version. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ And a side note - I love it when people justify the lack of features on a device - be it an Apple fanboy justifying the lack of Flash on iOS, or the lack of a flash on the iPhone camera, or expandable storage or HDMI out on any iOS device... Or a Linux fanboy explaining why it is better for application installation to be difficult and confusing. The fact is, someone suggested that the Nexus should be the "go to device" for everyone. No - it shouldn't. And I have listed reasons why. You may not need those features - but others do. There are things the Nexus 7 doesn't have that other devices do have. Both devices that cost the same amount and have just as much Western Big Name support behind them, and devices that cost a lot less but don't have the sense of security of being associated with an easy-to-pronounce name brand. Not to mention devices that have the Western backing and more features and cost more. Choice is good. And there are plenty of reasons to choose other devices than the Nexus. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Quoting Chad Smith : [snip] You have a good point, Chad. I wish there were an official port of Jelly Bean for my tablet. OTOH, I mainly use it for playing around, not for work, so the old version of Android that it has is "good enough." Maybe if I had more "bells/whistles" I might use it more. That being said, some of the apps I want to use won't work on the version of Android on my tablet, so maybe that's a reason to consider upgrading to something better, even though I"ve only had this Dell tablet for a month or so.

=============================================================== From: Lynn Dixon ------------------------------------------------------ I consider myself to be an Android power user. I have a Galaxy Nexus LTE phone and a Galaxy Tab 10.1. My Nexus phone has HDMI out. I thought I would use this alot, but it became a novelty really quick. I never use it anymore. My tablet has a rear facing camera. Again, useless from day one. Its so awkward to take pictures with it, and you end up looking like the douchebag who is taking pics with his tablet. I do however use the daylights out of the front facing camera for Google Hangouts and skype, etc. Both my tablet and my phone support USB OTG. Again, I never use it. I would much rather use the various Bluetooth devices for human interface out there. I have no need to read memory cards (although its possible) on my devices. If I want to move files to my device I use the many cloud services out there, or I just connect to my network shares using any of the plethora of SMB apps in the market. the expandable memory is a moot point. My phone and Tablet both have 32 gig of storage, and I am only using around 20 gig on both of them. I have a ton of apps, music, movies, pics, you name it, and still have alot of room left. I also have 50 gig of Box storage, 200 gig of google drive storage (I am on the grandfathered $50 per year plan), 25 gig of Dropbox, 2 TB on my own private co-located cloud server, unlimited AWS storage, so I have zero need for removeable storage in today's age. I love my Galaxy tab 10.1, but if I were to break it, or need to replace it, I would definately get a Galaxy Nexus 7. With all the multitude of DLNA capable players on the market (Roku, and Plex for me) I have no need to physically get up and plug my device into the TV to stream my pics and videos from it. I can do it from my couch, with the tablet in my hands, while my wife is playing angry birds at the same time on it. I also think the Nexus 7 is perfectly designed as a media consumption device, which is what most people use tablets for, Consumption and not Creation. So thats my opinion. I don't try to parade myself as being the "standard" mobile device user, nor do I depict myself as being the template that all mobile device users should be like. But, I just wanted to give some insight as to how I use my devices in my daily life. Those features that are required by Chad for a mobile device to be viable, just aren't viable to me, and are pretty useless for me.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ The Nexus has a quad core CPU and will probably be able to upgrade to the next version of Android. These are useful features as well that you may have overlooked. It's also going to have more support from Google than a lesser known brand as far as software updates. Although the software updates and speed may not be useful to you, they may be useful to others. It's cheaper to buy a tablet that will support future upgrades than to buy one every time a newer version comes out. A lot of new apps just won't work on older versions of Android and its not always easy to root and upgrade. There will never be any tablet that is going to please everybody.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I don't call myself a standard mobile user either. The statement was made - by Lee Walker - that he couldn't see why the Nexus wasn't the go-to-device. I responded directly to that. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ No, it's actually not cheaper. Not when the tablet that will support future upgrades costs more than twice the one you will replace next year. Especially when you consider (a) inflation (b) dropping prices of tech, specifically tablets (c) you will still have or can sell the old tablet when you get the new one. It reminds me of a friend who bought a $75 watch while we were both in college. I was floored. But, he said, it will last me for years. I told him I could buy a new watch every year for the rest of my life and not spend $75. (They sell watches at the Dollar Tree.) I'm not saying there's no reason to pay for quality. There certainly is in some cases. But there is also the law of diminishing returns. Especially when the cheaper option comes with more "bells and whistles" than the expensive name brand ones. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would buy a $600 tablet - ever. I could get 10 tablets for that. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ I think what he was trying to point out that its a good all around device without a lot of the features that most people don't use. And its at the same price point as the other name brands. And it had better and newer hardware than the Kindle or Nook. And it has a version of Android that is directly supported by Google. Android is not really an OS geared for power users. Although it can be tweaked to do some things, its still a simple OS running in a VM and can't really compete with a full blown Linux distro. For the price, the Nexus offers the best hardware/software combination for most users.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ We're talking about a $200 tablet here though, not a $600 one. Please show me a $60 quad core tablet. I still don't see the point in buying a new low quality tablet with old technology when you can buy a good quality one with better technology for twice as much and not have to worry about migrating to a new system next year.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ Before anyone freaks out, I'm not bashing your opinion. Everybody has their own needs. Some people are content with one thing while others prefer something else. I find everyone's input useful for the type of work that I do. I can appreciate the fact that Chad likes to buy a new piece of hardware every year, as it puts money in my pocket. I can also appreciate the users that like to stick with one piece of hardware as it makes my job easier.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ If it saves money and does more - what don't you see? I didn't say I planned on buying a new tablet every year - I said I *COULD* and still spend LESS money than buying a more expensive tablet that will last a couple of years - or even three years. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ It may do more for you, but not for someone else. As was mentioned by someone else, not many people need the features that you use. HDMI, OTG USB, card slots and such are something that you need, but I don't. I need speed and I need stability. A single core 1 Ghz cpu won't work for my needs. I use cloud storage because it allows me to move thing between all my systems with just a click. Any peripherals that I need are bluetooth or are connected to the network and don't need to be directly connected to the tablet. If I need all those peripherals directly connected, I use a laptop as connecting everything directly makes the tablet no longer portable. I can even connect to projectors wirelessly. I still use my laptop from 5 years ago. It's had some software upgrades since then, but its the same hardware. It's on and doing something useful 24/7. I use the same smartphone I bought 3 years ago. Same hardware with software upgrades. I like to think its because I bought good quality. If my Nexus 7 last 3 years, its still a better deal than buying 3 cheap tablets that won't last as long. It's good quality and it should be supported on the software side pretty well for a long time. f you're happy with what you bought, that's what matters for you. I've seen 2 cheap tablets that offer updates to JellyBean and both of them are known to have issues. Haven't seen any that come close in hardware performance though.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ I guess this would be similar to buying a Yugo vs a Trans Am vs a station wagon. If the Yugo gets you around and you don't need to keep up with traffic on the interstate, then by all means, buy it. If you race on the weekends, then you'll need the Trans Am. Neither one is useful to you iif you have 5 kids and a dog to take around town though, so you'll probably buy the station wagon. Its about what works for your needs.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ There are dual-core tablets with 1.2/1.6 Ghz processors, a separate GPU, 1 GB of DDR3 RAM for under $100. With those features I talked about as well. I haven't really seen a lot of single core ones lately. I'm sure they still exist. Probably still on cheap American sites instead of cheap Asian sites. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ Do these tablets run JellyBean, or at least ICS? Most of the ones I see run Froyo and if you're lucky, they run Gingerbread. Not a lot of software supports Froyo anymore. Gingerbread is starting to be phased out. I'd love to take a look at some of those ones you mention though. Although I look around a lot, I'm limited to what my company gives me, which are cheap tablets @ 800 Mhz to 1 Ghz, limited RAM and old technology. These are unfortunately the newest offered by the cheap manufacturers. I bought the Nexus out of my own pocket. The specs on a Nexus 7 are Tegra 3 chipset, quad core Cortex A9 @ 1.2 Ghz, 1 GB ram, 12-core Nvidia GeForce GPU, 1280x800 screen resolution, Android 4.1 A dual core for half as much is reasonable and makes sense as its a dual core vs quad. The original argument, though, was a $60 tablet that offered more than a $200 tablet and I haven't been able to find one of those so far. I'll admit, that it would be great to find a $60 tablet that offered as much as the Nexus in terms of hardware, performance and software, but so far, I haven't seen one.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ After looking around, I guess the Nexus 7 does support OTG USB.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ It's still not a fair comparison. Because you're making it sound like I'm "settling" for a tablet that is "Good Enough" because it is cheaper. I'm not doing that at all. I'm getting more features. So unless Yugos come with a built-in voice activated GPS communication & media console - and park assist - and a rear-view camera... and the Trans Am doesn't have a stereo system at all, or an air conditioner - and that Trans Am costs twice as much as the Yugo. It's not a fair comparison. The Yugo might not have as much get-up-and-go as the Trans Am, and doesn't have the well-respected brand name... but it is better in every other conceivable way. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ ICS, yes. A few between $100 and $175 that have Jelly bean. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ By the way - if you want to ship me some of those 43 tablets you have, I will be glad to use those old, outdated, slow, worthless things. I have people around me practically begging me for scraps. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ From what I read, it does, but only after you root it. Out of the box, it doesn't. Again, only going by what I've read. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ I still have to respectfully disagree. The Nexus 7 doesn't have an HDMI out. I can get around that with software because it runs the latest OS and it supports software for that sort of thing. It doesn't have a card slot. I can use cloud storage. Thats about all its doesn't have. If you've seen a Yugo that came from the manufacturer with all those features, I'd love to see that too. My point was that everybody buys what they think is right for them. If the cheap tablets work for you, awesome. If you need a HDMI out, then the Nexus is not for you. Very few tablet users that I know use that. I have an HDMI out on my smartphone that I thought was awesome when I got it. I've never used it. However you obviously use yours, so its a something you need to have. You're not getting more features, you're just getting different ones. Ones that aren't useful for me but are for you. I'm getting features that you apparently don't need, but I do. It's just another Mac vs PC argument that nobody wins.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ I thought so too, but I just saw a few sites that mention that it works out of the box. I'll have to do more digging on that just out of curiosity. It's not something that I'd every use though.

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ I'd love to give them away actually, but I have to get permission from the people that paid for them. I was waiting to see what happens with the hackerspace at the library. I think I'd have a better chance convincing them to let me donate them to a good cause than to give them away.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ That was my point - the Yugo thing was not an accurate comparison. And what software on earth lets you walk up to any TV and display what is on your tablet? Maybe if it is a smart TV or if there some computer or device plugged into the TV or something, but then you have to worry about the processing power it would take, and the lag time... *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ My tv allows to do this. Its one of those features that works for me. There is no lag and my Nexus has plenty of processing power for this sort of thing. I can also connect wirelessly with my smartphone and do the same thing.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Because it (my Asus Prime) is a very very nice tablet, With the keyboard attached it also has standard USB and extra memory (via SD) and allows me to not carry a laptop for real typing. It tethers to my N900 via WiFo or direct USB :) I've been using and very impressed with the rear and front facing cameras. The rear rocks at 8Mpx. I'll admit it was a splurge, but I like it enough to be very happy with it. Besides, the boss said: Buy a tablet.

=============================================================== From: DJ Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I've got the Asus Transformer tablet with the keyboard doc as well & I abso= lutely love it. Its like having the best of both worlds, a tablet & a lapto= p in 1. & like Mike it was a bit of a splurge but what the hell, I don't = really buy myself any really cool toys. I have it connected to all kinds = of cloud storage, so I basically have unlimited storage. & who ever recomme= nded teamviewer, thanks that's been an awesome app. I connect to all my Lin= ux systems GUI with it & connectbot for CLI. The only drawback is that it = is wifi only so I do need wifi access. If anyone is thinking about getting= a tablet I would highly recommend an Asus. -- Sent from my Android phone= with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ BTW - Jelly Bean Tablet for $45. *- Chad W. Smith*

=============================================================== From: C A ------------------------------------------------------ 4.3" screen.. The rest of the specs are decent for the price, but it doesn't have ANY of the "features" that you require.

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Plus it's a RESISTIVE touch screen.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I know - I'm just saying they exist. I do not recommend it. But if someone wants a cheap pocket-sized way to get to know Android, and/or Jelly Bean - here it be. *- Chad W. Smith*