From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Guy tried to join a fast prototype session and was told he couldn't do it in Drupal. So he sat in the audience and did anyway. The link has a screencapture. http://benbuckman.net/tech/11/02/drupal-application-framework-bostonphp-competition Of course this is all on linux. "One irony of the framework-vs-CMS argument is that what makes these frameworks appealing is precisely the automated helpers - be it scaffolding in Symfony, baking in CakePHP, raking in Rails, etc - that all reduce the need for wheel-reinventing manual coding. After the tools do their thing, the frameworks require code, and Drupal requires (at the basic level) visual component building (followed, of course, by code as the app gets more custom/complex). Why is one approach more "framework"-y or app-y than the other? If I build a complex app in Drupal, and my time spent writing custom code outweighs the UI work (as it usually does), does that change the nature of the framework?"

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ The thing is, if there's something you want to do with your CMS that doesn't exist and you need to write an extension, it's a pain to work with it to do what you want. If your CMS makes me want to go home and eat a whole bottle of Xanax after work, your CMS sucks. In my experience, that's been most CMS's I've worked with. I don't use scaffolding in Rails most the time, but it's all there if you need it. Most frameworks have clear organization (MVC, Model2, etc.) and are pretty easy to pick up and get running with. It's pretty easy to duplicate most of what you can do with a CMS out of the box without all of the mess.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ I'm no expert in either but Drupal does seem to be an odd bird that has its feet in both worlds. No perfect fit for everything but pretty good in a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Brewer To: CHUGALUG Sent: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:05:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Drupal CMS or Framework The thing is, if there's something you want to do with your CMS that doesn't exist and you need to write an extension, it's a pain to work with it to do what you want. If your CMS makes me want to go home and eat a whole bottle of Xanax after work, your CMS sucks. In my experience, that's been most CMS's I've worked with. I don't use scaffolding in Rails most the time, but it's all there if you need it. Most frameworks have clear organization (MVC, Model2, etc.) and are pretty easy to pick up and get running with. It's pretty easy to duplicate most of what you can do with a CMS out of the box without all of the mess.