Is this still a Linux based LUG?

From: Lynn Dixon 
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After the recent (and still ongoing) iBattle in the Kindle thread as well as
all of the Apple related stuff that always gets tossed in, I am left
wondering is this still indeed a LUG?
It seems more and more threads are Apple based, or somehow they always end
up with someone bringing in Apple.
Sorry for the rant.

=============================================================== From: DJ Smith ------------------------------------------------------ All it takes is 1 bad apple to spoil the thread. :-P

=============================================================== From: Ralph Edge ------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to the new iLUG.

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Intruder! Intruder! Assimilate! Assimilate!

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ The very topic of topicality has been discussed to death once before with Aaron advocating babies on spikes. So yes, we know.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Are you new? The Kindle thread is Linux based. First off, the Kindle Fire runs Linux. Secondly, this isn't a LUG. It's CHUGALUG. CHattanooga Unix, Gnu, And Linux Users Group. Mac OS X is Unix. So it is 100% on topic all the time, anytime, everytime. Thirdly the main thrust of the thread is open source versus closed source, which is topic near and dear to the hearts and minds of Linux users everywhere. So, yeah - it's 100% On Topic. Next question? - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Exterminate! Exterminate! Actually, I agree with Lynn and was thinking this not 10 minutes ago. While I can understand your dedication to a good product or company, the amount of Apple in recent months in the LUG is really starting to draw us away from the LUG ideals. Not to mention the constant scathing remarks about how Apple will conquer all and Apple is the greatest show on Earth begins to dig deep and is going from dedicated consumers to borderline religious fanaticism. If I were that way about Windows i'm fairly certain Mike would have banished me by now... end

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Let me just say this: yes OS X is UNIX based, yes they make a good product, but practically ever discussion we have degrades into "well apple does it better!" And I know I personally have contributed to some of that. While of Apple deep banished wrote: well

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ As a founding member, I recommend we change the name to: CHattanooga Unix, Gnu, Apple/Android/Amazon, Linux Users Group (which occasionally helps John fix his Windows computers). -Eric -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I don't see any of that. What I see is an insightful discussion on how platform user experiences dictate our preferences and practices, and while some platform lines are being drawn, I can't say i'm not learning anything from watching. That's more or less what the main function of this list is -- to educate. These threads always draw battle lines though. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Adam Jimerson ------------------------------------------------------ I think we are all a little guilty of that, including Mike, don't make me pull up the emails about the Macbook you bought for the Nancy... you know I will do it

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Well, no one can blame me - until today, I've been very quite for weeks. But I still disagree that Apple should somehow be excluded from the Unix family simply because they do it better than everyone else on earth. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ How about the CHattanooga Unix Gnu And Anything-but-windows Linux Users Group - that sometimes helps fix Windows computers? OS/2 - not Linux, FreeDOS - not Linux, BSD - not Linux, Solaris - not Linux... No one is complaining when we talk about those. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ Oh... I forgot Appliances! There's also the occasional Chevy Nova and power washer too. -Eric -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734

=============================================================== From: Lynn Dixon ------------------------------------------------------ I may be a complete idiot in thinking this, but I dont consider Apple any part of the *NIX world. I know there is a sprinkling of unix in there under the hood, but they havent been what i would call mainstream *NIX in years. I am also not new ro the list, and it seems every time Apple gets brought up there is a clear distinction of the list. From my viewpoint, it looks as if every Apple-ized thread turns into an iPenis measuring contest. February product, amount from fanaticism. left always

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Uh oh. Here we go again!

=============================================================== From: Lynn Dixon ------------------------------------------------------ Indeed Tim. It seems i have inadvertenly stepped into my poop! under years. as weeks. Unix ago. how dig before as

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ That's your hang up. remains Unix. Your prejudices do no change the facts. My preference for one product or another have nothing to do with the size of any part of my body. You are projecting. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Seriously, the Amiga is the only computer for the entire world. That's settled. What's on TV this weekend? :)

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Desktop Linux is still a gaggle of distros competing for one percent of a market that's on the slow march to obsolescence. Linux on the server is old news. The only forward momentum with *nix (consumer-side) is with Google and Apple. The latter pretty much ushered in this new market and set the pace. Stands to reason that they'd be oft-discussed. That said, it *does* get kind of tiring after a while. :)

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Tom, I think you are my new Chugalug hero. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Can we talk about my iPenis now? Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya wrote: of a market that's on the slow march to obsolescence.=20 Apple. The latter pretty much ushered in this new market and set the = pace. well as all of the Apple related stuff that always gets tossed in, I am = left wondering is this still indeed a LUG? always end up with someone bringing in Apple.=20

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Always wear an iCondom in CHUGALUG February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya wrote: a market that's on the slow march to obsolescence. Apple. The latter pretty much ushered in this new market and set the pace. well as all of the Apple related stuff that always gets tossed in, I am lef= t wondering is this still indeed a LUG? end up with someone bringing in Apple.

=============================================================== From: Tom Wilson ------------------------------------------------------ Well, if iPenis form factors mirror those of the iPod Nano.....No.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I'll consider Android a limited version of Linux. The title and focus has been: Chattanooga Unix, Gnu, AND Linux Users Group. Perhaps it could be: Chattanooga Unix, Gnu, Android and Linux Users Group. It was originally formed to give a bunch of geeks a reason to have a beer together... as a "professional development meeting". And a modern Mac is a pretty awesome Unix variant as well. Pull up a shell and put it through it's paces. Useful (if not perfect).

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I don't have the power, but the end effect would be the same, as everyone would train their e-mail clients to ignore your posts. To be on topic: Adam is playing with KVM Virtual Ubuntu Lamp servers on a new Intel Modular Server and it all just works. Fast. :) Nothing to kvetch about in Linux land, so we must kvetch about everything else.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Is Amazon an OS? Otherwise: Seconded.

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ Why can't we all just take our favorite anti-anxiety regimen of choice and just GET ALONG? And to think that tranquilizer darts are illegal! :P

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ I still want to talk about my iPenis... Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com wrote: everyone everything

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Non-Fire Kindles have to run something. Also, Apple isn't an OS. Macintosh is. #justsaying #yesIjusthashtaggedanemail-bigwhoop-wannafightaboutit? - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ You have to use DongML (Like XML, But different) https://github.com/nickmartini/dongml Dong ML: A flexible markup for stiff problems Worth reading. Hilarious.

=============================================================== From: Adam Jimerson ------------------------------------------------------ If you install Macports or Homebrew then it is even more useful because you can use apt-get like behavior to install programs that Mac is missing

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Chad, Macintosh is a type of Apple, AND a Model name. OS X is an OS from Apple Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya wrote:

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ I would beg to differ on the mainstream comment. I would think the invasion of OSX into the desktop and mobile markets gives you a prime reason to consider Apple THE mainstream *NIX. No other version (by a single type, not linux as a whole) is anywhere near as pervasive as Apple's OSX. -AW

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ Heh... I could have sold you an IBM bladecenter cheaper. :+P -AW

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Indeed. If I couldn't get to a *nix command line I never would have gone back to Apple. No way.

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ +1 -AW :

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ The name is Mac OS X - Mac short for MacIntosh, X meaning (and pronounced) "ten" 10. I was pointing out that if you are going to complain that Amazon isn't an operating system, then Apple shouldn't be included in the name for the same reason. Technically Apple - the company - maintains at least 4 operating system families at the moment. Mac OS, iOS, whatever iPod Nanos run that looks sorta like iOS, but isn't, and whatever iPod Classics/Shuffles run. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya :

=============================================================== From: Adam Jimerson ------------------------------------------------------ Cheaper maybe, better I don't know a VM on Mod server with two cores and 6 gigs of RAM just did a database load in two hours, the Dell 710 one of our customers have took 3.5 hours to load the same dump.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ +1 - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ I have dual quad core blades with 32GB of RAM cheap. I have dual core blades even cheaper. -AW

=============================================================== From: Adam Jimerson ------------------------------------------------------ Each of the two compute modules have two Intel Xeon E5620 running 2.40 GHz and 24 GB of ram, with the ability to add three more compute modules and seven more hard drives without needing an external SAS.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Sometimes you get to walk into the dealer and pick out what you want, new. just the way you want it. With warranties, support, etc.. And after a day of playing with this one, We hope to buy several more over the next year for various projects. This is a consistent answer to the same question, and the questions have $budget.

=============================================================== From: Sidney Hale ------------------------------------------------------ The simple answer: No, it isn't. It's a bunch of geeks many of whom are friends. Usually ranting and raving about one thing or another. as

=============================================================== From: Sidney Hale ------------------------------------------------------ Bad Phil, no iDonut from you. everyone everything

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure Amazon calls one of their instances in their EC2, "Amazon". It's like their own distro of Linux based on Red Had I think.

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ Amazon Linux, not "Amazon", it's like getting in an argument with a Debian freak who insists on the GNU/Linux nomenclature. :P ". e

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ +1 wrote: well as all of the Apple related stuff that always gets tossed in, I am = left wondering is this still indeed a LUG? end up with someone bringing in Apple.=20

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ Amazon Linux, not "Amazon", it's like getting in an argument with a Debian freak who insists on the GNU/Linux nomenclature. :P Yes that's correct. Thanks for the correction.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ and put it through it's paces. Useful (if not perfect). One of us...one of us...one of us... --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ Last time I checked, there were no iPenises on this bod. Although you may have just given me an idea for an app=85=85. :o any part of the *NIX world. I know there is a sprinkling of unix in = there under the hood, but they havent been what i would call mainstream = *NIX in years.=20 brought up there is a clear distinction of the list. =46rom my = viewpoint, it looks as if every Apple-ized thread turns into an iPenis = measuring contest. weeks. Unix February wrote: product, does it wrote: ago. the amount away from about how to dig fanaticism. have before thread as am left always

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ He comes... -AW er . as . x . ow ig e as

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ The name is Mac OS X - Mac short for MacIntosh, X meaning (and pronounced) "ten" 10. Not to start another argument, but during the whole week that I worked for Apple, they told us that it's pronounced "X". So it's like the word "daemon", it can pronounced two different ways, and everyone argues that their way is correct.

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ As a founding member, I recommend we do exclude people who obsess over thei= r Wang. -=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-=3D--=3D---=3D----=3D---=3D--=3D-= =3D- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Aaron welch wrote= : y der s. t s as s. ix s o. y re m

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ See, we even got Mike drinking the Kook-aid! And he admits, it's good! well as always end beer together... as a "professional development meeting". shell

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Steve says "Oh Ess Ten" - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Mac's themselves say "Oh Ess Ten" Terminal: Chads-MacBook-Pro:~ chad$ say "X" (heard "Echs") Chads-MacBook-Pro:~ chad$ say "OS X" (heard "Oh Ess Ten") - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ Not to pick on people, but it seems that there is always 1 or 2 people out of several hundred that complain about this every 60 days or so. That is a pretty good metric to say that most people on the list are happy or at least content with the conversation that happens on the list. I find it odd that people would complain about topicality at all given this is an opt in list. If I do not want to read something I just skip over it. Do other people's mail clients not let them do this? Do you read mail from the command line and have to step through each one? Just wondering why people assume that the boat will turn because one person does not like their view of the sunset. -AW

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ Holy sh!t that is cool. I did not know I could do that from the CL. Thanks Chad. Cron jobs just got more fun on the Mac. -AW

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I can't believe it. I taught someone on this list something about CL. And it was Aaron, even! I think I need to celebrate. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ This is pretty neat. +1 Chad. that

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ Don't forget to show them the different voices.

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ I would not have even thought to look for something like that. Monitoring scripts will now speak results on my desktop. Much better way for me to get info while I am engrossed in something else. -AW

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I'm quitting while I'm ahead. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ There are more voices!?! Where is my sexy lady voice? -AW

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ System Preferences > Speech > Text to Speech > System Voice I don't know how to change it from the CL - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ BTW, I tried: say mac os x, mac osx, os x and they all said "eks" here. I'm not sure if it matters but I'm running Lion.

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ say --voice voicename

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ or -v voice is a bit easier

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Capitalization is important. say "os x" is not the same as say "OS X" - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ I just discovered that. Thanks!

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ It's supposed to be capitalized, you insignificant clod! ;) it e: --=20 " ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we=E2=80=99re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aar= on Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead" - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Dulles Technology Corridor (Chantilly/Ashburn/Dulles), Virginia USA

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Have you ever seen the movie "Gotcha"? You really need to! :D

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ So a rant of how osx is not *nix related has turned into a discussion of th= e command line on OS X.... I find that ironic On Sep 29, 2011 3:18 PM, "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" wrote: f it wrote:

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ well, in Roman numerals x doesn't mean anything - originally. I V X L C D M... not i v x l c d m - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote: if

=============================================================== From: "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" ------------------------------------------------------ Since when is BSD not *NIX related? the if Aaron

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Don't'cha think? - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ :o ROFL! :D Tele-Dildonics??? :P

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ Hey, if it has "man", it's Unix to me. I like OS X CLI discussions just fine.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ 29 Sep 2011: The day Chugalug stopped being exclusively about Linux and became about Mac OS and OS/2 Never forget =EF=A3=BF --Cameron Aaron

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ I didn't start the thread. I really don't see any OS outside the bounds of this group.. On Sep 29, 2011 3:21 PM, "Alex Smith (K4RNT)" wrote: the if

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:14:12 -0400 Randy Yates wrote: At a guess, do you get a difference when you do say "os x" vs say os x ? Because in the first case, argv[1] is "os x", in the second case argv[1] is "os" and argv[2] is "x". Dan

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ an italics Apple.... well played! - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Cameron Kilgore wr= ote: e e Aaron

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ no, it's capitalization. OS X is different from os x - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ man say =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SAY(1) Speech Synthesis Manager SAY(1) NAME say - Convert text to audible speech SYNOPSIS say [-v voice] [-r rate] [-o outfile [audio format options] | -n name:port | -a device] [-f file | string ...] DESCRIPTION This tool uses the Speech Synthesis manager to convert input text to audible speech and either play it through the sound output device chosen in System Preferences or save it to an AIFF file. OPTIONS string Specify the text to speak on the command line. This can consist of multiple arguments, which are considered to be separated by spaces. -f file, --input-file=3Dfile Specify a file to be spoken. If file is - or neither this parameter nor a message is specified, read from standard input. --progress Display a progress meter during synthesis. -v voice, --voice=3Dvoice Specify the voice to be used. Default is the voice selected in System Preferences. To obtain a list of voices installed in the system, specify '?' as the voice name. -r rate, --rate=3Drate Speech rate to be used, in words per minute. -o out.aiff, --output-file=3Dfile Specify the path for an audio file to be written. AIFF is the default and should be supported for most voices, but some voices support many more file formats. -n name, --network-send=3Dname -n name:port, --network-send=3Dname:port -n :port, --network-send=3D:port -n :, --network-send=3D: Specify a service name (default "AUNetSend") and/or IP port to b= e used for redirecting the speech output through AUNetSend. -a ID, --audio-device=3DID -a name, --audio-device=3Dname Specify, by ID or name prefix, an audio device to be used to pla= y the audio. To obtain a list of audio output devices, specify '?' as the device name. If the input is a TTY, text is spoken line by line, and the output file, if specified, will only contain audio for the last line of the input. Otherwise, text is spoken all at once. AUDIO FORMATS Starting in MacOS X 10.6, file formats other than AIFF may be specified, although not all third party synthesizers may initially support them. In simple cases, the file format can be inferred from the extension, although generally some of the options below are required for finer grained control: --file-format=3Dformat The format of the file to write (AIFF, caff, m4af, WAVE). Generally, it's easier to specify a suitable file extension for the output file. To obtain a list of writable file formats, specify '?' as the format name. --data-format=3Dformat The format of the audio data to be stored. Formats other than linear PCM are specified by giving their format identifiers (aac= , alac). Linear PCM formats are specified as a sequence of: Endianness (optional) One of BE (big endian) or LE (little endian). Default is native endianness. Data type One of F (float), I (integer), or, rarely, UI (unsigned integer). Sample size One of 8, 16, 24, 32, 64. Most available file formats only support a subset of these sampl= e formats. To obtain a list of audio data formats for a file format specified explicitly or by file name, specify '?' as the format name. The format identifier optionally can be followed by @samplerate and /hexflags for the format. --channels=3Dchannels The number of channels. This will generally be of limited use, a= s most speech synthesizers produce mono audio only. --bit-rate=3Drate The bit rate for formats like AAC. To obtain a list of valid bit rates, specify '?' as the rate. In practice, not all of these bi= t rates will be available for a given format. --quality=3Dquality The audio converter quality level between 0 (lowest) and 127 (highest). ERRORS say returns 0 if the text was spoken successfully, otherwise non-zero. Diagnostic messages will be printed to standard error. EXAMPLES say Hello, World say -v Alex -o hi -f hello

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ And Chad kills the "Is this a linux list discussion" with a copy and paste of man from a Mac. Well played good sir. -AW -n to t e es ?' he m ed r y e it

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ What I like is how it says "crotch" and "soi" without error. --Cameron e st n he o t y om or fy te ,

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ Too short of a conversation..... (sorry, couldn't help it) Regards, dtb

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ /sigh, it's not just Debian... Regards, dtb