Amazon Kindle Fire

From: William Wade 
------------------------------------------------------
Just a reminder that this is on topic as the Fire runs Linux (ok about as
much as the TiVo does, but...)

What do yall think?  I like what I have seen for the most part.  The real
question to be answered for me is how hackable/rootable/do whatever I want
with it/etc it turns out to be.  It is getting really close to my purchase
point, and I will likely try to pick one up say January once they have been
out and tested a bit.

I think like the Silk Browser idea.  Browsing is most of what I would really
do with it, so if it is good for that, then we might have something.
(Assuming a $99 HP Touchpad does not find a way to my fingertips (which are
not much more eager than $99)).

=============================================================== From: Ralph Edge ------------------------------------------------------ Just watched the video intro of Silk Browser - they are acting like their doing something new and original, but Opera Mini has been doing the same thing for a while now... As far as the tablet, I'm excited to see it and may buy one when it comes out provided it doesn't have a locked bootloader. $200 sounds like a sweet deal. -Ralph

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ I think I read it is based on the Blackberry Playbook. Perhaps that will help Blackberry.

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Blackberry/RIM is beyond help. They need to die and make way for better = more adaptive technologies and companies. The lingering half-death state = they are currently in is just pitiful. Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com will help Blackberry. wrote: their doing something new and original, but Opera Mini has been doing = the same thing for a while now... comes out provided it doesn't have a locked bootloader. $200 sounds = like a sweet deal. wrote: as much as the TiVo does, but...) real question to be answered for me is how hackable/rootable/do whatever = I want with it/etc it turns out to be. It is getting really close to my = purchase point, and I will likely try to pick one up say January once = they have been out and tested a bit. really do with it, so if it is good for that, then we might have = something. (Assuming a $99 HP Touchpad does not find a way to my = fingertips (which are not much more eager than $99)).

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ RIM shipped a tablet without an email client. That was the hail mary pass they fucked up. They will be sold in a couple of years and end up like Palm did. The Amazon Kindle Fire is ten times more attractive with a few less features. This will be a good 2nd expected gift (behind the iPad) at Christmas. Which raises the question -- Google clearly can't see any amount of Android fragmentation being "good" if a semi-successful tablet w/o Android Market launches. --Cameron r s eet e: as al ant ase been ing. are

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Googlerolla will be working overtime to create phones/tablets that offer = a comparable user/app/compatibility experience to the iPad. Meanwhile Amazon can afford to lose money on hardware or merely break = even) to hook people on the crack-rock of their content, where they = currently outshine Apple in many ways. However they care nothing for = Android and are only interested in a proprietary content delivery = platform, which severely limits their ability to compete in the user = experience arena. Apple makes the best/sexiest hardware out there and insures your average = 5 year old can use it. They have what is likely an insurmountable head = start in the app-store concept, and with the iPhone 5 (if the rumors are = true about the qualcomm dual GSM/CDMA chip inside) will be able to = neuter the carriers and take control of the entire SmartPhone = revolution. Yes there are a LOT more android devices out there than = iPhones...HOWEVER at least half of those devices were bought by people = married to a provider, and the overall retention rate for android vs iOS = is less than half (89% of iPhone users say their next device will be an = iPhone -VS- 40% of Android users). When the iPhone is available from ALL = providers and can be bought in Wal-Mart/Best Buy/ Target/ etc... and you = choose your carrier when you plug up to iTunes and activate... Who do = you think will win that round? We all love Linux for many reasons, open-source being one of the big = ones. However the business world has not, and likely will not reward = open platforms in any where near the same ratio as it does a well = integrated and heavily supported closed-source competitor. Microsoft dismissed the iPod as trivial for too many years then half = assed it with the ZUNE. In a similar way nobody grasped what the REAL = potential for the iPhone/iTunes/APP-Store model would become, and as = they were sitting it out or half-assing an also-ran concept, Apple = continued to tighten up it's game, and now no longer needs to check the = rear view mirror. This race may in fact be over until the next disruptive technology = arrives. The real question is: Will that ALSO be an Apple technology. Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com pass they fucked up. They will be sold in a couple of years and end up = like Palm did. features. This will be a good 2nd expected gift (behind the iPad) at = Christmas. Android fragmentation being "good" if a semi-successful tablet w/o = Android Market launches. wrote: better more adaptive technologies and companies. The lingering = half-death state they are currently in is just pitiful. will help Blackberry. wrote: their doing something new and original, but Opera Mini has been doing = the same thing for a while now... comes out provided it doesn't have a locked bootloader. $200 sounds = like a sweet deal. wrote: about as much as the TiVo does, but...) real question to be answered for me is how hackable/rootable/do whatever = I want with it/etc it turns out to be. It is getting really close to my = purchase point, and I will likely try to pick one up say January once = they have been out and tested a bit. really do with it, so if it is good for that, then we might have = something. (Assuming a $99 HP Touchpad does not find a way to my = fingertips (which are not much more eager than $99)).

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I have to disagree with you there Phil. While Apple has the 'wow' of the tablet/smartphone market, Android is more common, in more flavors, at lower prices than Apple can compete with at least on the smart phone market. I agree that Apple completely controls the tablet market, but I think you are giving them more credit than is due right now. I'll tell you right now, within my reach are 9 smartphones of which 7 are Android, one Blackberry, and one Windows. One of the owners of these devices used to have a phone, but ditched it because he liked the Android devices better, and they were much more affordable. I got my Samsung Pert (which is dual band COMA/GSM) for $80. Apple may have sex appeal, but Android has selection, features, and price

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Google doesn't need a vertical alliance like Motorola to make good Android devices...but with Microsoft shadow buying Nokia and Apple wielding patents like a claymore, there's no mistake to be had that the acquisition wasn't just to protect Android as a whole. The market may force them into it. Further proof: HTC wants to have its own OS

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Ps please ignore my phones autocorrections lower devices is

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Hmm. It appears to be embedded Android after all. 2.2 based and heavily modded. I wonder how long before someone installs has it running 2.3 or 3.0= . On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Cameron Kilgore wr= ote: lm id ir e es weet te: er I they hing. h are

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Stephen, You are a VERY bright person... However you are far outside of the 98% = of the marketplace that makes up middle America. You are correct about the pricing issue Apple vs Random Android. However = the pricing disparity will narrow and vanish over the next 12 months. At = the SAME price, how many choose Android over APPLE? A few yes, even = millions. 29 MILLION people have already chosen the iPad, and there are = 73 million iPhone users. They have sold over 200 MILLION iOS devices. Apple can certainly introduce a lower end cheaper iPhone, and they will = do so soon. At the end of the day the store with 425,000 apps wins. Yes, I am a Mac Evangelist, but I am also a business owner that watches = other businesses closely. Steve Jobs has a crystal ball. He guesses = right 9 out of 10 times. In baseball that is a 900 batting average, = which would get you a a Billion dollar contract with the Yankees. Apple = is now the largest company in the world based on market value. It wasn't = luck that got them there. Trust me, THIS part of the race is over. What is fun to think about is "What Comes Next" Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com the tablet/smartphone market, Android is more common, in more flavors, = at lower prices than Apple can compete with at least on the smart phone = market. you are giving them more credit than is due right now. are Android, one Blackberry, and one Windows. One of the owners of these = devices used to have a phone, but ditched it because he liked the = Android devices better, and they were much more affordable. I got my = Samsung Pert (which is dual band COMA/GSM) for $80. price

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ Sorry Stephen, but the used iPhone market kills the whole point of affordabi= lity. Plus with a new contract an iPhone is only $99 and way more usable ou= t of the box. -AW ablet/smartphone market, Android is more common, in more flavors, at lower p= rices than Apple can compete with at least on the smart phone market. re giving them more credit than is due right now. ndroid, one Blackberry, and one Windows. One of the owners of these devices u= sed to have a phone, but ditched it because he liked the Android devices bet= ter, and they were much more affordable. I got my Samsung Pert (which is dua= l band COMA/GSM) for $80.

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ +5 As a business owner who is looking to buy/lease thousands of tablet/iPod lik= e devices, there was really only one choice. I have 30+ tablets and mobile d= evices, but 10/10 times our users will choose an Apple device. The look on a= persons face trying to figure out how to even open our app under Android is= evidence enough that Apple just gets it. It takes 2 mins for a user to get= how our app works on an iOS device and a good 5 mins to figure out how to e= ven turn on the Android device from sleep mode. -AW he marketplace that makes up middle America. he pricing disparity will narrow and vanish over the next 12 months. At the S= AME price, how many choose Android over APPLE? A few yes, even millions. 29 M= ILLION people have already chosen the iPad, and there are 73 million iPhone u= sers. They have sold over 200 MILLION iOS devices. so soon. At the end of the day the store with 425,000 apps wins. her businesses closely. Steve Jobs has a crystal ball. He guesses right 9 ou= t of 10 times. In baseball that is a 900 batting average, which would get yo= u a a Billion dollar contract with the Yankees. Apple is now the largest com= pany in the world based on market value. It wasn't luck that got them there.= ablet/smartphone market, Android is more common, in more flavors, at lower p= rices than Apple can compete with at least on the smart phone market. are giving them more credit than is due right now. Android, one Blackberry, and one Windows. One of the owners of these device= s used to have a phone, but ditched it because he liked the Android devices b= etter, and they were much more affordable. I got my Samsung Pert (which is d= ual band COMA/GSM) for $80.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I can't think of a single time so far this decade when more choice helped anymore. Android is losing its user experience on the backs of every Chinese tablet manufacturer that made total crap before Honeycomb, and Honeycomb itself isn't killing the iPad in the marketplace. It just plain sucks in some usability cases. The free market will drive Google to either take the reigns on its partners or they will slowly become more vertical post-Motorola. That is the only way Android will matter going forward. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ How long do you think Apple will maintain it's lead in the market with the Head Developer gone? From what I heard, it's probably only got one or two more "big" ideas from Steve Jobs still in the "pipeline" and after that, who knows? Maybe Android will take over, maybe not. I don't think Apple is going to necessarily have the lock on things much longer now that Jobs is gone.

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I shall stick to Android. Google makes it easier for me to import applications I write to the OS, I can natively run almost any application written in Javascript or Python. Whats even better is I don't have to work around Apples restrictions. I'll admit, I am not pro-Apple, at least new Apple. They are becoming the very company they preached against in the 1980s, a faceless conglomerate. The fact that they recently tried and failed to Trademark Multi-touch irks me a bit. Customization is not an Apple strong point, if I want different features for my hardware, they lack any real selection. I can understand though, its appeal (App-e-al ha ha) to small business owners, because Apples OS is seriously universal, perfect for the healthcare industry and places where you just need a universal platform. Apple is starting to make headway in the places it is lacking (Gaming, High Performance Hardware, etc.) but developers for both still prefer Linux or Windows. I have no real love for Apple, nor can I see the appeal others seem to take in their Intel based hardware (overpriced PC clones in reality). I loved old Apple hardware (G3-G5) because it was a performance hardware, and very customizable for the situation it required. I'm glad it fills your requirements Aaron and Phil

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Everything Apple has done, even with Steve Jobs, has been incremental, predictable improvements with technology in the marketplace. So basically: - Devices will get thinner - There will be more touch gestures - NFC There. that's next week's product launch. You can be productive again. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ I am so seldom productive, I hope that your pronouncement is enough to = change that trend ;-) Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com predictable improvements with technology in the marketplace. wrote: the or two that, Apple is is

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I am nothing but productive. That's why i'm losing my sanity. --Cameron : he o is s

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I am productive, just not at work On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Cameron Kilgore wr= ote: : wo , is

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Yeah, I can't stay out of this one. I have given non-Apple stuff a chance. Heck, for the longest time, even after I converted to Mac OS X, I openly mocked iPods and their ilk. "Why pay 10x the price for 1/3 the features?" I said. And, i still agree with that. The thing is, iOS kills that. Are there still features missing from their hardware? Yes. Removable storage, HDMI out, a physical keyboard, game controls... But none of that matters when the user experience is so incredible and when the apps are so plenteous. I've tried geeky stuff. I have an Android Netbook - it sucks. I have a Nokia N900 - it's cool in theory, but the crappy (broken record) resistive touchscreen kills it. I even have an HP Touchpad, which I am still in the Honeymoon phase with, but all it has really done is showed me that Tablets have a use. Sorry, strike that, showed me that iPads have a use. Before I thought "I have an iPod Touch, and I have a MacBook Pro. Why would i need an iPad?" Well, if they ported iOS to the MacBook, and gave it a touch screen, that would be absolutely correct. But that hasn't happened.... yet. In my experience: Maemo < iOS Android < iOS webOS =E2=89=A4 iOS (WebOS has its advantages to iOS, but at the end of the day, it's dead, and the apps just are not there. I can't watch NetFlix or Hulu on it.) I haven't tried a Windows 7 phone or a Zune yet, but since the Zune hasn't been updated in 2 years, and since I don't want to buy another phone just t= o test a new OS, I can't really speak for it, but I doubt it would beat the iOS. I do have to admit, my Android Netbook is running a touch-based OS on a non-touch device, and it's an old version on crappy hardware, but even if Android as an OS was as good as iOS, which it may be, the Apps aren't there= , and decent hardware costs as much as iPad - so why bother trying something that may not be as good if it costs the same (OR MORE!)? years ago, people said "No one ever got fired for buying Windows". Now it'= s "No one ever got fired for buying an iDevice." And I, for one, welcome our Cupertino iOverlords. And, no, I don't think the removal of Jobs will change anything. I'm not alone. The stock even *went up* after the announcement. He isn't as important as he ... i mean everyone ... thinks he is. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Stephen Kraus wrot= e: wrote: e: t, e

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Chad, you don't count. t o e e s ld nd t to re, g ote: te: h le s

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ LOL... But unfortunately not true. -AW fter I converted to Mac OS X, I openly mocked iPods and their ilk. "Why pay= 10x the price for 1/3 the features?" I said. And, i still agree with that.= rage, HDMI out, a physical keyboard, game controls... But none of that matt= ers when the user experience is so incredible and when the apps are so plent= eous. okia N900 - it's cool in theory, but the crappy (broken record) resistive to= uchscreen kills it. I even have an HP Touchpad, which I am still in the Hon= eymoon phase with, but all it has really done is showed me that Tablets have= a use. d i need an iPad?" Well, if they ported iOS to the MacBook, and gave it a t= ouch screen, that would be absolutely correct. But that hasn't happened....= yet. d the apps just are not there. I can't watch NetFlix or Hulu on it.) been updated in 2 years, and since I don't want to buy another phone just t= o test a new OS, I can't really speak for it, but I doubt it would beat the i= OS. n-touch device, and it's an old version on crappy hardware, but even if Andr= oid as an OS was as good as iOS, which it may be, the Apps aren't there, and= decent hardware costs as much as iPad - so why bother trying something that= may not be as good if it costs the same (OR MORE!)? 's "No one ever got fired for buying an iDevice." lone. The stock even *went up* after the announcement. He isn't as importa= nt as he ... i mean everyone ... thinks he is. ry 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya ote: rote: nge that trend ;-) edictable improvements with technology in the marketplace. : e wo s

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I didn't mean Don't Count as he doesn't count as a person. But I knew his opinion on this like BEFORE iOS came out. No offense Chad old buddy :) y h at so ve he ts e it 't t to e f ere, ng t o , . th r bs

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ All I will say to this is that you need to remember how quickly technology is changing. Personally (IMHO, I know a lot of others hate it, get over me liking it) Gnome-Shell > OS X The point is however that iOS may in your opinion be better now (and that may be true, I currently have only a stupid phone, and cannot afford the AT&T bill for an iPhone even if I wanted one), but as we know in three year= s who knows what will be out there. Perhaps some young guy from a small country later today will post v0.1 of a new kernel that we will all be using? Perhaps Hurd will take off and a new mobile OS centered around it will come out. Perhaps .... Anyway my point is that the point of Open Source is that it allows (opportunity !=3D=3D actuality) an even faster iteration of technology. Su= re I like and use Linux, GNU, etc..., but I think I have come to the point where I believe more in Open Source. (Currently imagining swelling music ;-) ) Closed source technology can only advance so far before there is a critical mass of companies and programmers who come together to create a canvas upon which the new future will be painted! Ok that was perhaps a bit over the top inspirational, but after the Apple stump speach, I thought we could use it. ;-) Wil

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ The main reason open source does not really take off is because people like Stephen Kraus write it. That is not meant as a knock against Stephen, but more to point out that his user experience is different than mine. If I ha= d alot more free time to tinker, I would be using something other than Apple products for everything. I have almost zero time to fiddle with something and am more than will to spend good money on something that just works (my MB Air for example). The day that a OSS project is lead by a designer or U= X nazi (like Jobs) we will finally see main stream adoption of OSS. Android is a really cool concept, but it is being poorly executed in comparison to what Apple is producing. I truly hope we see future versions of Android products that focus on the UX for normal people (read: not geeks like us). -AW y ars Sure I re al on

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I can agree with Aaron and Phil there, I spend 90% of my development cycle 'tinkering' usually because my deadline is either self set or distant. I can understand the need for an easy to roll out system like OX and its user friendliness. Now if we could get the military to think that way about software

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ WebOS is Dead. Open Source does *not* work for hardware. Open standards, maybe - open source, not at all. And small little start ups who try to take on the big boys with their pluck= y new gizmo .... they fail, over and over and over again. Seriously - since APPLE - name one hardware company that grew out of someone's garage to make more than 10 Million dollars in actual profit.... Not venture capital.... profit. And, yes, you have to have profit for a company to survive. Android will survive because there is a huge company that relies on closed-source proprietary software to exist backing it. The reason Ubuntu has had the success it enjoys - some rich dude is just funding the whole thing. I doubt he got rich by giving everything away. Open Source works for software, sometimes, because you can charge for support, or set up, or the hardware itself, or customizations.... If I wanted to be really cynical, I'd point out the painful fact that the profitability of open source software firmly relies on the ignorance and incompetence of the users. Which suggests a truly dark possibility - that maybe the reason some open source software is harder to use is by design... to keep users calling that tech support line, buying that newest "how-to" book, and extending that service contract. With open hardware (by which I mean hardware designed to run open source software), it's almost impossible to compete. Almost every company takes a loss on hardware - at least for devices. Video game consoles, cell phones, printers, even tablets... The profit doesn't come from the sell of the hardware, but from the apps and accessories to make it useful. Whether it'= s a service contract, ink, apps, music, or video games, they all have something that will slowly milk money out of the user for the lifetime of the device. If your open hardware is running free and open software that anyone can write free apps for.... (or dubiously legal emulators and ROMs freely available online).... then there is no money to be made after the initial sale. So your price will always be higher than the "subsidized" price of the big boys. Even though you hare leaner, have less investors to answer to, and all that stuff. it's not even a matter of scale at this point (although that works against you, too, of course), it's simply the fact that most hardware is either a borderline or actual "loss leader" product. *cue the thunder and lightning, dark piano cords, rotating prairie dog, and crescendoing maniacal laughter* - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya y ars Sure I re al on

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ To expand on Aaron's theme: I am an Apple worshipper, I drank the cool-aid. I am also a geek, and a marketing wonk. I WANT Android to succeed. I NEED other companies to push the envelope = so that APLLE will continue to innovate. Innovation is a function of competition in *ANY* competitive = marketplace: Tech, Sports, Politics, dating, retail etc... A large part of WHY Apple is so great is they have had competition = through the years that was very good. Phil Sieg President SeniorTech LLC / snapf=C5=8Dn=C2=AE www.snapfon.com like Stephen Kraus write it. That is not meant as a knock against = Stephen, but more to point out that his user experience is different = than mine. If I had alot more free time to tinker, I would be using = something other than Apple products for everything. I have almost zero = time to fiddle with something and am more than will to spend good money = on something that just works (my MB Air for example). The day that a = OSS project is lead by a designer or UX nazi (like Jobs) we will finally = see main stream adoption of OSS. Android is a really cool concept, but = it is being poorly executed in comparison to what Apple is producing. I = truly hope we see future versions of Android products that focus on the = UX for normal people (read: not geeks like us). wrote: technology is changing. it) Gnome-Shell > OS X that may be true, I currently have only a stupid phone, and cannot = afford the AT&T bill for an iPhone even if I wanted one), but as we know = in three years who knows what will be out there. Perhaps some young guy = from a small country later today will post v0.1 of a new kernel that we = will all be using? Perhaps Hurd will take off and a new mobile OS = centered around it will come out. Perhaps .... (opportunity !=3D=3D actuality) an even faster iteration of technology. = Sure I like and use Linux, GNU, etc..., but I think I have come to the = point where I believe more in Open Source. (Currently imagining = swelling music ;-) ) Closed source technology can only advance so far = before there is a critical mass of companies and programmers who come = together to create a canvas upon which the new future will be painted! Apple stump speach, I thought we could use it. ;-)

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ there was more before "webOS is dead"... stupid computers. It was something like: Maemo is dead Freerunner is dead Meego is dead (before it was born) GPH is dead OpenPandora is dead (to the point of literally leaving hardware to rot) Nokia signed a deadly deal with the devil WebOS is dead.... - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya . u t .. a s, t's to nd : gy t ears t Sure I ere ) cal pon e

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Despite that Phil Apple seeks at every turn to block competition via embargo's and lawsuits that APLLE will continue to innovate. Tech, Sports, Politics, dating, retail etc... h the years that was very good. like Stephen Kraus write it. That is not meant as a knock against Stephen, but more to point out that his user experience is different than mine. If I had alot more free time to tinker, I would be using something other than Apple products for everything. I have almost zero time to fiddle with something and am more than will to spend good money on something that just works (my MB Air for example). The day that a OSS project is lead by a designer or UX nazi (like Jobs) we will finally see main stream adoption of OSS. Android is a really cool concept, but it is being poorly executed in comparison to what Apple is producing. I truly hope we see future versions of Android products that focus on the UX for normal people (read: not geeks like us). wrote: technology is changing. Gnome-Shell > OS X t may be true, I currently have only a stupid phone, and cannot afford the AT&T bill for an iPhone even if I wanted one), but as we know in three year= s who knows what will be out there. Perhaps some young guy from a small country later today will post v0.1 of a new kernel that we will all be using? Perhaps Hurd will take off and a new mobile OS centered around it will come out. Perhaps .... (opportunity !=3D=3D actuality) an even faster iteration of technology. Sur= e I like and use Linux, GNU, etc..., but I think I have come to the point where I believe more in Open Source. (Currently imagining swelling music ;-) ) Closed source technology can only advance so far before there is a critical mass of companies and programmers who come together to create a canvas upon which the new future will be painted! e stump speach, I thought we could use it. ;-)

=============================================================== From: Ed King ------------------------------------------------------ you should have used a 'droid, it wouldn't have lost the text=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ Can't just pick on Apple for this one. Sony, Nokia, M$, Nintendo, they hav= e all sued over IP in the past. Apple is the monster in this because they have the IP that 90% of the public wants. Keep in mind that I hate the US patent system and the new legislation to "accelerate" the patent process essentially screws small business, not make it easier. -AW On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Stephen Kraus wro= te: so e: , I t of s ks t) e ll ure I re al on

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I can agree there, Apples lawsuit was over the SHAPE of the devices, which to be fair the chalkboard did first... have so marketplace: e Stephen, f I just of n versions geeks it) d three small Sure I where critical upon :

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ We are getting classy on the FX. Perhaps I'll have G. Lucas go back over mine and see if he cannot improve it ;-)

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Will you know George will just ruin it and make Greedy shoot first and

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Chad you can say what you want about Web OS but the interface was clean and smooth and a lot of people love it. It just came late in the game and killed by a company that didn't know what they had on their hands

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ I am in a position where I am comparing an ipad2 with a motorola xoom. We are specifically evaluating them as vmware view clients. The ipad interface is nicer and easier hands down. The only thing the android has going for it right now is that the client doesn't end the session if you drop back to the home screen. I am not jailbreaking or tinkering since this would be going to normal users... It doesn't really look good for the android right now unless longer term testing shows a big performance or stability difference. ke t had e g y UX d o . e: gy t t Sure ) e

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ It was Google's Gmail that screwed up. So I don't know if using their operating system would be the wisest choice. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya .. tu at ... " s a es, it's f t s to e: ) at e years it Sure I here ) ical upon le

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ Bret, I have a Galaxy Tab 10" if you want to compare to something more up to date on the Android side. I gave my iPad2 to my sales guy. Tim I or d t) he . )

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I am shocked that HTC or Google didn't go for Palm when they were for sale. They have all the relevant defense patents and the talent that could have made Android a top-tier user experience. But, they didn't. Matias Duarte, who designed the WebOS interface, has been working at Google for a year now, and yet Honeycomb is nothing like iOS or WebOS on the TouchPad. What the hell happened to him? I'm convinced that some of Google's greater "the web is our platform" philosophy is interfering with the potential success Android could have if it had a breakthrough interface. longer term testing shows a big performance or stability difference. Android screams on a Tegra2. It shouldn't have taken four years to find the chipset it kicks ass on for performance to be resolved. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ What I am waiting to see is someone actually fully use the Nvidia Tetra chipset for Android to its full potential sale. Google Google's the and killed over dog,

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ *has an HP Touchpad* WebOS is very nice. There are just no apps. A slick interface with no apps is like a sportcar with an awesome paint job, impressive styling, precision handling, and a crazy powerful motor that runs on a fuel source that no longer exists.... It's useless. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ Tell that to Ferrari precision February and killed over dog,

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Do they have a car that runs on Doodoo bird feces? - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ They have a diesel option, and you can convert all the parts of a dodo, including the faeces, into biodiesel. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ They've had some cars in the past that they would have been better off not making... February

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Perhaps my analogy wasn't as clever as I imagined. What I was saying is that a great interface does not make up for a lack of applications. You can make a very intuitive and responsive remote control, but if your TV doesn't have any content source plugged into it, there's no point. My HP Touchpad is very nice for the price I paid. I won't complain about that. And I can easily see that HP may have pulled the plug too soon. But without developer support - the OS would never have meant anything. HP rushed to ship the TouchPad, left off too many features, and then pulled the plug way too quickly. They should have made their flagship WebOS product the tablet with the best specs on the market - and kept the price at or below the iPad. I'm talking HDMI out, BlueTooth 3.0, fastest processor on the market, 32GB minimum, front and rear facing multi-MP cameras, SDHC slot, full-sized USB 3.0 host slot... The specs should have sold the TouchPad, and then the OS would have hooked the users, and the users would have drawn the developers. If you can't draw the users with apps, you have to draw them with price or specs. The TouchPad had neither, until they killed it, then it had price, and look what happened. The OS, while important, can not build anything by itself. Mac OS X is an awesome interface - but without killer apps and slick hardware, it wouldn't stand out. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ Perhaps this is because I have never used a tablet (still looking for a Touchpad for $99) but why do you need or want apps when with a screen that big you have the entire web? I can see wanting some games and drawing type stuff for the kids and a bit of diversion for me on occasion, but what else are apps really good for?

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ I appreciate the offer, but i'm more interested in management/stability/etc... the Xoom is running version 3.2 I think Android is still in its infancy for tablets and has a little ways to go. On the other hand I think it's almost up to par with the ipad. I have to say that using the iPad for a VMWare View client (which is the business intention) pisses me off because I can't leave the application or it closes my session. The Android does not do that. What I think is freaking awesome is that I can open a video on the remote session with either client and watch it with little to no stutter in a window mode. Even from home. I can't wait to see what the new clients can do with View 5. (sorry for going off thread-topic) Alternatively if anyone has explored Android for use in the Enterprise I would be interested in comparing notes. I'm already very pissed at how Apple wants iPads to be deployed on the enterprise. I despise iTunes down to the root of my soul. -B

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I've used the shit out of the scheduling app i've been testing for Marta. It uses the times reported by the train's SCADA system over the one i'm developing, which guesses based on the time tables off their website. There is currently no way to get these accurate times outside of actually visiting a Marta station and crossing the turnstiles. The current website for Marta is not what I would consider a positive experience. As the form factor scales down, this becomes the case across a lot of sites -- an app provides an opportunity to reset and adjust the experience for what platform and the interface and feature motifs it offers. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ You should take a look at the device policy manager that Google has built into Android. Love my GTab 10. Gave up the iPad2 the day after I got it and never went back. It has been super solid and I'm looking forward to the 4G version on Verizon soon. The performance is amazing on this and the iPad2. Really we are living in special times as far as computing goes. ave s es do ple e I n id e l e d y. -) s :

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Seriously? First off, while the TouchPad does offer Flash, (someone Apple refuses to do), it does not offer the "entire web". Two sites specifically fail to work, Hulu and Netflix. There need to be apps for that. There is technically a "fix" for Hulu, but even with the TouchPad overclocked to 1.5 GHz the video is unwatchably laggy. Secondly, I don't buy the whole ChromeBook idea that all you need is the web. Personally, I don't have 4G or even 3G - so I'm not online 24/7. I want to be able to do stuff while I'm on a plane, or at a restaurant, or in a basement. HP TouchPad *does* come with QuickOffice, which is one of the major types of applications I need to feel like my computing device is a legit computer, and not just a media player. But even web-based things like Netflix, Dropbox, Pandora, and Skype - work far better with an app than they do through the website. It has to do with touch-based interface vs keyboard and mouse. Heck, I prefer eBay's desktop app to their website. HTML doesn't cover everything. But don't treat the games section lightly. Most iPad owners view their iPad as a toy. That's not a bad thing. People spend a lot of money and a lot of time playing games with toys. And, believe me, the ubiquitous presence of Angry Birds, (Angry Birds HD was included free with my TouchPad) did a LOT to make me feel like it was a legit purchase. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ I also have a Chromebook if anyone dare stare into the mouth of the beast.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ The Chromebook would be great if it didn't cost twice as much as netbooks running full OSes that don't require the Internet to work. Give me a $99 ChromeBook, and then you'll have something. Or a $499 ChormeBook with a Kindle-esqe Lifetime 3G service included... I would love to see it, though, but I'm in St Louis, so I'll just google a youtube of it sometime. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ ...and yes there will be a Chrometab, eventually.

=============================================================== From: Tim Youngblood ------------------------------------------------------ You are thinking consumer. Think of $20/month for companies with lots of MS Office users who would look at you funny if you said 'netbook' in a sentence. Compare that to MS and you'll find the real target. This is not a consumer product but another wedge in the Microsoft battle for enterprise apps. If it was 299 and had the profile of my new MacBook Air...maybe next Google I/O.

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ -2 Irrelevant -AW