Chad is mostly right (Flame Bait)

From: Mike Harrison 
------------------------------------------------------

I bought that Mac Pro from Aaron for Nancy. After an hour of just playing 
with it.. Yeah, for a normal human osX rocks for the general user 
experience. I still don't like the keyboard and how terminal does a couple 
things compared to old xterm..

Best part: on a fresh install of osX I can pull up a shell and do things 
my way: ssh to a Linux box and run Firefox. :)












=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ Yep....that's why I adopted it three years ago. Nice, intuitive, friendly u= ser interface when I want one, but enough under rhe hood to get geeky when I= need (or want) to do so. And I don't miss having to fix hubby's BSOD issues either. Just sayin'... Lisa Ridley RoveWorks ith it.. Yeah, for a normal human osX rocks for the general user experience.= I still don't like the keyboard and how terminal does a couple things compa= red to old xterm.. y way: ssh to a Linux box and run Firefox. :)

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ Oh, and boost that baby to 4G+ of RAM (8 is better if the Motherboard will s= upport it), and you cane run Ubuntu in a VM Ware virtual machine... Lisa Ridley RoveWorks ith it.. Yeah, for a normal human osX rocks for the general user experience.= I still don't like the keyboard and how terminal does a couple things compa= red to old xterm.. y way: ssh to a Linux box and run Firefox. :)

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ There is something just twisted about that. I don't think she'll need/want that in a VM... I figure in a month or so, another Vista machine will bite the dust.

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fixed that for ya... :) I suspect I'll be in the market for a new laptop rather soon, and I'm extremely tempted to find a used MBP... even if OSX and I don't get along (I just don't grok the UI, but I might be able to customize it within tolerance), the hardware is impressive itself. (Someone go help Ken, he's probably choking on something right about now...) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3yvP8ACgkQABP1RO+tr2RAoACaA1HIKoa5xnsZ6Qxd7cO7LS+P FZ4AnjhIb1iZ04cfJ4HwI+CE5IKhqKrz =pflN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid you can't do that. The UI doesn't tweak. You may find some small little things here and there (like TotalFinder which adds tabs to the windowing system). But it's not like you can throw some other GUI on it. No Fluxbox / Gnome / KDE choices here. It's all Aqua all the time. You might move the dock to the side and make it 2D instead of 3D. If you really work at it, you can put it on the top! but you aren't aligning those desktop icons to the left of your screen. And you aren't moving the menu bar. You could remove the dock, I guess, just get rid of all the icons and turn on hiding and make it as small as possible with no magnification. But Mac OS X is Mac OS X, and you aren't going to get it to be anything else. There's not even a WindowsBlinds analog. You really want a Mac to look different than a Mac - install Windows or Linux on it. Aqua is at the core of every app you run and it will not let go. If I am wrong (and even the title of this thread doubts that) and you can tweak it - I'd love to see some screenshots. Because I've never seen OS X look like anything but OS X. Now Mike, you know you can use whatever keyboard you want, right? And you can even change the settings to make the shortcuts more Windows like. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Ryan Bales ------------------------------------------------------ It's all cool-aid. No GVim, Mac wrappers around nearly every goddamned programming language/environment/package manager, so it's never a native install/configuration, terminal sucks, etc. The only nice thing about Macs is what it's preserved from BSD, and that you can run Adobe CS on them, making them a more complete solution for web developers who do a lot of their own design work. I use a Mac at work and I just plain don't like it. ~Ryan Bales

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ I was talking about you.... ;) Hey, if you're stuck sometime on a desert island with only Nancy in a string= bikini and her Mac, you can make do. Sent from my iPad l support it), and you cane run Ubuntu in a VM Ware virtual machine...

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ That was no typo..... Sent from my iPad .)

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It was for my purposes.... ;) Cheers! dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3yxbYACgkQABP1RO+tr2TcBwCgjVZefd9lOtdOv9FrILN5Ytyn MxIAoIOMt8VvfGW7R+dORa+tyztMvxEk =oXQh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ I don't post to the list very often, but I wanted to point out that there is a GVim for Mac. I use it all the time. I'm a PHP developer mainly, and even though I have a Mac Book Pro with CS5 installed, I rarely use the Mac Book or CS5. I do all of my development in Linux using Netbeans and (gets ready for the rotten tomatoes which are about to be thrown) I use the Gimp for most of my limited graphic design work. I'm not trying to just contradict your post, Ryan. I agree with most of it. However, there's definitely a GVim for OS X, unless they discontinued it. -Randy

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ *=E0=B2=A0

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ http://code.google.com/p/macvim/ - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ http://macvim.org/OSX/index.php This is the one I normally get.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I found that one first, but then I saw "2007" and cleaned up the brick off the floor and kept searching. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ Some apps were perfect years ago. There's no need to mess with perfection.

=============================================================== From: Benjamin Stewart ------------------------------------------------------ You may find some small little things here and there (like TotalFinder which Actually, it's been a while since I used a Mac, but when I did, you could run any Window Manager you wanted, fullscreen, in the X11 app. That's actually how I cut my teeth on the world of *nix. You just have to use Fink/DarwinPorts/Whatever has come out since then to install them. -- Benjamin Stewart

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I have never found that to be the case. Not for software - not for most things. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Randy Yates ------------------------------------------------------ I should rephrase that and say that some people shouldn't continue changing software for the sheer sake of changing it. Firefox is one example. Vim is another. It does what it does and that's that. A piece of software shouldn't necessarily evolve into something else over time. If it does what it's supposed to do, leave it alone. If you want it to do more, then sure improve it, but I don't need new features to make me keep using something. I just want it to work as expected.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ sure you can. CLI install of linux plus openbox. *ducks* ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Smith" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 9:18:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Chad is mostly right (Flame Bait) I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid you can't do that. The UI doesn't tweak. You may find some small little things here and there (like TotalFinder which adds tabs to the windowing system). But it's not like you can throw some other GUI on it. No Fluxbox / Gnome / KDE choices here. It's all Aqua all the time. You might move the dock to the side and make it 2D instead of 3D. If you really work at it, you can put it on the top! but you aren't aligning those desktop icons to the left of your screen. And you aren't moving the menu bar. You could remove the dock, I guess, just get rid of all the icons and turn on hiding and make it as small as possible with no magnification. But Mac OS X is Mac OS X, and you aren't going to get it to be anything else. There's not even a WindowsBlinds analog. You really want a Mac to look different than a Mac - install Windows or Linux on it. Aqua is at the core of every app you run and it will not let go. If I am wrong (and even the title of this thread doubts that) and you can tweak it - I'd love to see some screenshots. Because I've never seen OS X look like anything but OS X. Now Mike, you know you can use whatever keyboard you want, right? And you can even change the settings to make the shortcuts more Windows like. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya I suspect I'll be in the market for a new laptop rather soon, and I'm extremely tempted to find a used MBP... even if OSX and I don't get along (I just don't grok the UI, but I might be able to customize it within tolerance), the hardware is impressive itself.

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ Yeah, the differences in terminal are annoying, same crap happens on FreeBSD, but you quickly get over it. Keyboard also takes a little getting used to. But it's a beautiful blend of simple human interface, and still makes it easy to use all the power tools of a commandline user. It just works, that's why I love OS X. I don't have to spend time making my own computer work, which translates to time spent on important stuff.

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ Heard that. I bought my parents Macbooks for Christmas. I haven't had a single support call since then, and they absolutely LOVE how easy Time Machine makes backups.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I have gratiously agreed to allow me to quote myself. "You really want a Mac to look different than a Mac - install Windows or Linux on it." - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ Please, I always knew you'd come to the dark side sooner or later. Stubborn you may be, my friend. Stupid, you ain't. Eventually, that will overcome your stubborness!

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ gvim is on Mac as macvim or something, but my favorite editor on the Mac is Aquamacs, and I'm mainly a vim guy. Aquamacs is a really good piece of software.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I think I'm done playing with it. Installed the basics for Nancy like Skype, Adobe Reader, Firefox and Chrome.. and she'll figure the rest out. And in this case, the Aqua UI will be a nice front end. It's running a real OS underneath the pretty and shiney UI. I'm back on my Sony after a couple of hours playing around.. The Sony has a better keyboard and screen by a smidgen. For me.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Who needs a string bikini. ;) I could make do on the Mac without Linux in a VM. The lack on a 'net connection is the issue. I've fixed systems from shell and browser on my N900. it works. :) Again, the issue is audience. The Mac is not intended for many of us on this list, but many of us respect it and use it, I just felt compelled to stir things up and say: Apple Fanboi Chad is mostly right.. ;) Mostly.

=============================================================== From: Ryan Macy ------------------------------------------------------ Nano all the way

=============================================================== From: KIG ------------------------------------------------------ I too did not care for the keyboard. But now it is just another non-ergonomic keyboard. I must say that if Microsoft only produced ergonomic keyboards and mice ( well, and Visio and Excel (and I am not sure Visio counts)) I would really like Microsoft. Keith I bought that Mac Pro from Aaron for Nancy. After an hour of just playing with it.. Yeah, for a normal human osX rocks for the general user experience. I still don't like the keyboard and how terminal does a couple things compared to old xterm.. Best part: on a fresh install of osX I can pull up a shell and do things my way: ssh to a Linux box and run Firefox. :)

=============================================================== From: Gary Hasty ------------------------------------------------------ Since I get to deal with everything under the Sun (yes that too) at work = and troubleshoot pretty much ever OS/App/DB combination...I went mostly = OS X at home cause I really just want something to work without me = thinking much . Been using for over a year now on an old dual G4 = now MBP and completely happy with my decision. I can get my "geek on" = at work.. string bikini and her Mac, you can make do. connection is the issue. I've fixed systems from shell and browser on my = N900. it works. :) on this list, but many of us respect it and use it, I just felt = compelled to stir things up and say: Apple Fanboi Chad is mostly right.. = ;)

=============================================================== From: Stephen Kraus ------------------------------------------------------ I continue to dislike Apples interface....but I'm just a control freak Since I get to deal with everything under the Sun (yes that too) at work and troubleshoot pretty much ever OS/App/DB combination...I went mostly OS X at home cause I really just want something to work without me thinking much . Been using for over a year now on an old dual G4 now MBP and completely happy with my decision. I can get my "geek on" at work.. --- Gary Hasty "The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney