OpenOffice.org Confusion

From: Chad Smith 
------------------------------------------------------
*[On topic for once! Can you believe it?  And from Chad W Smith, no less!]*

So ok,

My entire introduction to the world of open source software began with a
business road trip on which I heard NPR (not a fan) talking about this craz=
y
bunch of people giving away - for free - an entire office suite that
was comparable to Microsoft Office.  As soon as I got home from that trip, =
I
began the huge process of downloading this massive free program - over
dial-up.

I feel in love.  The entire concept of "open source" was entirely new to me=
.
 The idea that people would volunteer their time to creating and improving =
a
piece of software, just to make sure the software existed, was astounding
and uplifting.

I not just downloaded it, but I signed up for every email list I could
through their website, and began what would be a few years of volunteering
on the user's list, learning, suggesting, and debating on the discuss list,
and even helping out with the design of some webpages and being involved in
the creation of one of the official Windows releases, (I created the 7zip
powered self-extracting EXE).

In fact, (not to brag, just reminiscing) it is because of my overzealousnes=
s
that the Open Clip Art Library has that name, and the domain openclipart.or=
g.
 (I registered the domain for them before they had officially settled on a
name.  I looked at it, erroneously, as an extension of the OOo project,
hence the name seemed obvious to me.  The project had actually started
separately, and has pretty much remained separate, other than that brief
window of time when I bought the website.)

I was very active on the lists.  Spending hours each week, some times hours
each day, responding to users' questions, submitting bug reports, and makin=
g
very humble and helpful suggestions, as I'm sure you all can imagine, since
you know me so well.

As the year moved on, I feel away from my community.  As hard as it may be
to believe, I didn't always get along with everyone on the lists.
 Eventually it was the creation of the Document Foundation, and
the instance that ODF was the future that drove me away.  (And, since to
this day, no one other than Free Software Freaks actually use ODF, I feel
vindicated in my statements of fact to them.)

Well, I say all that to say this - I have a weird geeky place in my heart
for OpenOffice.org, and although I now use iWork almost exclusively, I stil=
l
keep a copy or two on hand, and I recommend it to anyone who's Windows
computer doesn't already have MS Office, or who is looking for something
different.

However, I have not really kept up very well with what it going on over
there.  And would like anyone who does know, or has opinions on the subject=
,
to help me understand.  I know this is Linux list, and not an OpenOffice.or=
g
list, but I know they are closely related, and people with expertise in one
might well know a lot about the other.

So, as I understand it, over the past few years (started from when Sun
released OOo to the world, I know Star Office goes back further than that) =
-
Sun bought Star Office, Sun released a free, open source version called
OpenOffice.org (the name of the website and the software, to this day, I
think it's dumb, but I still correct people when they use other
names/spelling for it), OpenOffice.org took on a life of its own, and while
some of the heavy lifting of the code was done by Sun employees, (and
employees of other companies, like IBM and Google), the community of
volunteers grew, and everyone was happy.  Sun was happy because they got
free code to use in their commercial "Star Office" software - as well as
great PR for hosting / releasing OOo, and the world got a powerful free,
cross-platform office suite.  And it was good.

Now it's not.  I know a little more about the beginnings of LibreOffice, bu=
t
I could have some info wrong.  So could someone please pick up the story
from the time of unicorns and rainbows in the Wonderland that was
OpenOffice.org under Sun - and tell me what the crap is happening now that
Oracle bought Sun, said OOo isn't worth anything, and has now given it to
Apache - and include why so many people don't like this idea, including the
Forkers of LibreOffice.  It is my understanding that LibreOffice has been
adopted by several Linux Distros, including Ubuntu!  And that people don't
think Apache is "Free enough" - (an idiotic concept IMHO).

Feel free to express opinions like "Forking is good!" - just know I will no=
t
agree with you.  Also be aware that I think having a centralized Corporate
Sponsor is a Good Thing=AE=A9=99! for the community and the project, as it =
tends
to keep things moving forward and has a unified vision of where the project
is headed - ala Ubuntu's Canonical.  Doesn't have to be a commercial
sponsor, necessarily, although I think greed is an excellent motivating
factor for progress.  (Ayn Rand was on to something.  I really have mixed
emotions playing BioShock, because I want Andrew Ryan to take Rapture back.
 Would you kindly remake the game so that Rapture succeeds, please Ken
Levine?)

- Chad W Smith
"I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar=
y
10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Ed King ------------------------------------------------------ I seem to remember that a certain Chugalug member got in trouble (banned? cease and desist order?) from selling OOorg cds on ebay for an unreasonable price (like, $100 per cd or something like that). Does anyone else remember that shenanigan or am I imagining the whole thing?

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Selling burned CDs on eBay - regardless of content - is against eBay policy. Even if you are a band and burning copies of your own original music, it is against eBay policy. CDs on eBay must be pressed - not burned. The person you are referring to was me. It had nothing to do with how much I was charging. The problem was some people can't read. They claimed I was selling burned copies of Microsoft Office. I do not wish to rehash that event. Thank you. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ This is actually no longer true unless you were referring to as a primary document format. MS Office 2007 SP2 supports ODF. There are a few notes on it, but it works: http://www.oooninja.com/2009/05/microsoft-office-opendocument-odf.html Google Docs also supports ODF as completely as anything. On LibreOffice I (want to?) believe that a lot of people felt that OO.org had reached a point similar to XFree86 did. For those who missed that XFree86 like (I believe) OO.org had grown into an extremely large and slow moving mass of code. Nothing really new was being developed. Remember that many of us geeks are bleeding edge people. We like to see progress even at the expense of stability sometimes. I know I have put up with a lot of bugs in Gnome Shell because it was new and fresh (not to mention an actual new direction for the desktop). I know there was likely a lot of back end work going on on OO.org (unlike XFree86...) but the project from the outside looked like it lacked direction and focus. Most visual example being that it still looked like Office 97. Looking like a 14 year old program is not good for publicity (Although I do not like the ribbon much. Too hard to find things still after using it for years now nor is it contextual as it could be...). Example in reality: OO.org "Roadmap" http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Features vs LO.org http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/ Anyway that is what I see from the outside. Wil (And, since to

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Concerning the ODF format - I don't deny that software may support the format, but actual humans using the format, I've never once came across it. The only reason MS supports it is to avoid legal issues. And by "legal issues" I mean overzealous anti-corporate advocates pushing an ultra-liberal state to pass bogus laws about file formats. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ I do, but then again I have been using Linux as my only personal desktop for 7 years. Most of my college papers are in it or an earlier OO.org format. I do not know of any businesses who use it. I just like the idea of a non-word processor dependent document format. (That is somewhat easy to use without mess... I'm looking at you *TeX...) t. gal ral ary e: ere are as l ood =A0(And, since to

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have several years of documents (personal mostly) in OO. I also have business forms (invoices/quotes/expense sheets/etc) in OO. There are a few simple "Base" database applications out in the world that I may have planted. I've only walked into a couple of offices that used it before I arrived. (Keep in mind, my idea of a word processor is vi or notepad++) I recently began (what better damn well be) the final journey to my degree. I was quite impressed that school fully supports cross-platform students, and even most mobile clients. There are some (very small percentage) resources that require Flash, so TuffSh!te to the iKidz, but otherwise everything is completely usable from Windows/Mac/Linux. I admit I was shocked at the format of choice... RTF. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3yOD8ACgkQABP1RO+tr2TW7ACgu9AOPj1wx2cDHKdSmNgte4+J lh4AnifXJ5/JeaHT8KSPt2SIvwZHRqkj =C+om -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ As far as the obnioxus iKidz statement goes - until ICloud actually rolls out next month, you can't have an iPod / iPhone / iPad without having a computer. You have to activate it somehow. (The next version of iOS will activate over WiFi / 3G.) So all iKidz have access to Flash, or can if they want to. Again, pointless Apple hatred. I wish iOS did Flash, too, but your statement was pointless and nonesensical. Now as far as RTF goes - that was really my secondary arguement against the need of Yet Another Word Processing Format. There's already an existing open, near universal cross-platform, international, software independent word processing format around, and one that has been for years and years - RTF. My main argument was that the MS Word .DOC format was the defacto standard, that pretty much every office-type program on earth already uses. I still hold to that. But RTF, PDF, TXT, HTML... Not to mention about 1.12 kagillion free online format converters, and another .63 bazillion free online word processors. I mean if you can't figure out some way to share files among different software these days, you shouldn't be allowed to operate a computer. ODF is pointless. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: wes ------------------------------------------------------ My company uses it interchangeably with MS Office DOC formats. The only reason we don't use it more, is because we have clients we have to send docs to who can't read ODF. -wes

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ Believe it or not, I see ODF a lot. My current company uses LibreOffice/OpenOffice.org as a "cost saving measure." Basically, any machine we have that we don't have a good reason to buy an MS Office license for, we put LibreOffice on it. ODFs get tossed around periodically. I was slowly trying to get us to migrate over to LibreOffice. Also, the government entity my company is contracted out to uses OpenOffice.org for similar reasons. They don't want to pay for 30 licenses of MS Office. I don't really blame them. ocs it. l eral re d since

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ A couple of our sales reps have sent in their monthly reports in either OpenOffice native format, which MS Word doesn't read.

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ If we didn't have to have LookOut! I'd probably have most of my users on OpenOffice/LibreOffice.

=============================================================== From: wes ------------------------------------------------------ enable POP / IMAP access in Exchange. now you don't have to have outlook. -wes

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ There's more to Outlook than email. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ But mostly its just email. And day planning. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Email, Contacts, Calendar. I'm no fan of MS Office, but just forwarding the email won't give you everything Outlook has. I am forced to use it for one of my jobs - the one where I actually leave my house. You could enable the web interface on your server - and then just run Outlook in your browser. But it's slow and clunky, and costs a fortune to keep that certificate up-to-date. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Chad's right. Although we mostly use it for email, it does have other uses such as scheduling, calendaring, etc. Granted we could use other, individual apps for that, but it's handy to have Outlook for that as well as email. Oh, and we don't use Exchange. Our email is already POP3.

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ Outlook might work if everyone knows how to use it in the office, but it is more annoying if you use outlook... and are the only person who tries to actually use it. For goodness sake people, sending an email that a meeting has changed time instead of just setting up the calendar appointment and inviting everyone in the first place that will let you change the time and notify everyone!

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ the problem is that Outlook is the de-facto standard for "business" email such that everyone expects you to have Outlook to handle meeting requests, etc.

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ Google's stuff has been getting better at handling Outlook stuff. il ,

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lightning and Thunderbird handle OL requests and generate OL compatible requests and acknowledgments just fine. There is *a* valid reason for OL, but you have yet to mention it. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk30BFMACgkQABP1RO+tr2RThACcDHFdwikum/zbphNSo2somx4a SgYAnRFL74XmpsyDl++C0Fy0rnb3rbqx =Fuog -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Well, we paid for it, so we might as well get some use out of it. ;D Still, as I say, Outlook is *the* "de-facto" standard email client in business. I guess change needs to start somewhere, but at this point, I don't feel like trying to teach everyone how to use a new email client. :D

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You paid for the single most (or perhaps second most, Lotus Notes is pretty effing horrific as well) horrible Email Client, and that's your excuse to use it? Never mind the security nightmares, the bloat, the potential (probability) of PST corruption, nor do you use the one "killer" feature that makes it so difficult to transplant. I don't understand, you seem to find every possible out of the way niche hole to start making changes, but the low hanging fruit is somehow too much effort? And BTW: I am refreshingly seeing your statement of OL being the "de-facto" email client diminish, unless you're a "big corp". Small businesses (and owners of SMB/SME) have used Gmail and other clients and can grok "email" enough to send/receive/forward/reply, pretty much regardless of client. Some have even noticed how slow OL is to open their multiple Gigs of email and others don't.... Start small, do it yourself and find a willing guinea pig. The big savings in your environment would be getting you off the AS400, yeah, it'll cost you some CapEx, but I'm betting within year 3 of OpEx on the 400 pays for it. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk30EzgACgkQABP1RO+tr2T+8gCffLbH9f0C96/WQd5Al9gfa4k7 SSEAoLbb+B61NJ9EFFL9XttQZuBqo8+v =Kb4K -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I have a love/hate thing with Google Apps/Email for business. But I gotta say, if you have nice bandwidth and can run Chrome on decent computers, it's pretty freaking awesome and an insane value at $50/seat per year. I just don't trust it. Nothing gets deleted. It is not a place to email/store sensitive information. And even in business-mode.. I rarely see Outlook as the other ends mail client. It's dying (thankfully).

=============================================================== From: Gary Hasty ------------------------------------------------------ being from one of those "big corps" I doubt I'll see an end to Outlook = in my near future...I wish...but it Sooooo ingrained and at $50/seat per year. email/store sensitive information. mail client. It's dying (thankfully).

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ The job I have is with a not-very-big church, and Outlook isn't going away from there in the foreseeable future. It saddens me. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Luckily enough, I've always been responsible for Exchange when working at such places. IMAP over TLS enablement is the first order of business. Hell, once you get to Exchange 2010, your Firefox OWA experience should be damn near good enough to consider abandoning LookOut! -- unless you (are allowed) have large local resources. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk30KQcACgkQABP1RO+tr2SaZACgjpPxC5oF4M8ppq9ZI0bSwhBd G2sAn0Tmz/tNwJoAAnJ5Xa5tZNOBimRK =hVLu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 compatible for Since it looks like no one else bit on this, I'll do so - what do you = consider a valid reason for Outlook? (And we Linux geeks sure do spend alot of time talking about Microsoft = crap) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN9I7AAAoJEDSV5GS4KsJ4f5AH/inHhqvbPamrRa9v0Qg5AqlI fRpNajmkqBH1W6OtWSdq1IBiVNCuD/tnP51+ak6mJFg2xDh1JAVAYuAFJd6ToLpi FzhfdxHQFOlROoC6/W9WSjx1MTCEEBRRxqjylqUjsc1OxCM/MY/EEh8LhzO2hOmg FCzPjXwPUVZcPTC6BQL6955dXEFEl384dnpBn/+hpLm3OtJkrm1fOmHjsUnF2UaI AgqN3FlffFLkp5E0O+XZskY2+nnmx0Luk91M/2nc/OJbaFPBOivTrNKqIVnmnw95 Kb7HiewA9Y8YsagvB+ZP0TYRv2qNm2tdlzRPqAWfV8RDsrpTz2ravaTS1WWWwU8=3D =3DyXGB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----=

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 in my near future...I wish...but it Sooooo ingrained Amen to that. I knew there were somethings I wouldn't like about going = back to work for corporate america, and outlook is one of them. The other was being handed a nice new laptop with Windows 7 and told = that if I wanted to run Linux, I had to do it in VirtualBox using a = company supplied RHEL image. My little rebellion against corporate = america was installing Debian, making Gnome look like Red Hat, and = booting the RHEL vm every once in awhile so the LanDesk agent can check = in with the inventory monitor.=20 (Linux geek speak added to try and give some semblance of topic ;)) - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN9I/VAAoJEDSV5GS4KsJ4Nu0H/3rqSsFsfGsiAw5wLcCgisvW VhzG3ITKZr5suRCgBbOJIUUTcaotxHzz+TVd55DOEK+LQJ5HeCPJgtpX5SyngzdS Gw6AYLLhzRsP69WQj3fu9sl75pn4vf9Rx9C1GTSAkgF4M6nPEjGadvOnf/uEFqiF sbYLh11NqMAlIF+UVZXDTwrsCQ7wAknzNPUOfWynzq83o+nqhJ6O07LN8jGvDEwf PXEKehXjlRI424K3a534Mm8Af9h/9PNlFL/EKEWo2coTn8s7iqLRDi7O2PMS1c5z QqeyOlCL7D58O3CI3Dp5HJiSDtPE345NPIqEMrFBjFPY+o6rpQ/Qogel8sjX40s=3D =3D5zi6 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----=

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Dave, do you know of another suite like the CAMS suite that will allow us to do everything we do in that? *I* don't even know what all we can do in that, but I know we do everything from take the order for the carpet to making the carpet to shipping it out the door, all in the one suite that's on the 400. Plus, from what I've been told, it does a great job of managing the "consumables" that we use for the carpet. I'll be the first to admit, I know very little about carpet. All I know about the CAMS system is that it is apparently THE system that is written specifically for the flooring industry. Why they don't bother porting it to Linux, I don't know... it would certainly be a huge money saver... :D Maybe they don't know enough about Linux to port it... :D That being said, there's little to no chance we'll get off the 400 any time before hell freezes over... :D

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I know nothing of your system other than it runs on the AS/400. It's been over 10 years since I touched the carpet industry down that way. I imagine however, that your CAMS is very similar to the other "customized" AS/400 packages sold through-out your area ~20 years ago. I only remember running across two varieties on the 400, but there about a half dozen varieties on SCO. Yes, that was always the FUD the original programmers had ingrained in their sales pitch -- other products are simply incapable of properly accounting for the consumables and assemblies of carpet. Which is utter BS, it's all inventory and math, I never read anywhere about an AS/400 doing math differently than other computers. I could probably give you a dozen names of folks running "THE system that was written specifically for the flooring industry". None of them are on the same system, btw. Because if it's ported to Linux, they lose all commission on sales and maintenance of the 400.... I know, change isn't exactly something your company embraces... Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk30wr4ACgkQABP1RO+tr2TYOQCfQArQ/Qgmo74L5q6rY+xS2Rkl S08AnjG/ZzrZMNhouNAPIysi5KgtG4Cp =8cNL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Shared calendaring, which of course requires Exchange (or a 3rd party install). I thought it was obvious. Unfortunately, MS is the bar that has to be reached in a lot of cases. Not going to lie, Windows 2000 is what led me down the path of Kerberos on Unix. Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk30xBQACgkQABP1RO+tr2T4yQCfWto46jgO5hLJgxK8kiWvvEgD 5tsAoIAMs/vWMF8S+COaVFvvxNIoLLN3 =PtFp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: John Aldrich ------------------------------------------------------ Again, I won't swear that it does anything different, however, I have "hearsay" evidence that other programs don't "consume" the consumables when they're used. *shrug* All I have to go by is what I've been told by folks who have been doing this for longer than I have. *shrug* Yeah...but I don't think that's the main business they are in... OTOH, it may be a good chunk of business for them. Agreed.

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dunno, I think there are enough other solutions out there to make = Exchange's perceived advantage in this area to be, basically, a bluff. = Even Google Calendar can do it -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN9S3eAAoJEDSV5GS4KsJ4nPkIAI1aLb0TC0YYgtJiexezzzz3 swNIDKohssRrFMIcrMXUE9ZvolqdF7V/luQOCRN4UNT7aWfee6TP8OLRAnf9UVBF XO5WZE+NqkuUbuyITu6+kedoGtr4spPebECaoQ/jdYHjL50HYtx5hzbsAKFQ8sRw 0ycz36HGuniaAi8HiJZcOv4AITaeRtFCCJhN5dxOtGYIGmgLfAHW4ZFgmmKsCp5q Fc8XvxukEzX1FksvcDiPi670PdXOPGZuA7EbRP7jTg2vZBWnJZsinuXS0taPajUQ I3tS//V2JcfDdPS54nDADVZdIlsKYhLasGJnlDSMMU1WZBK1n+Gwh8F+uf2x+/o=3D =3DSsk2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Of course they do. GAAP. How well they do it, or how well they track it might be variable, but they all do it.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Yeah but zimbra or Horde would do just as well. Especially if your not connecting to exchange server. OAnd isn't that built into gmail as well? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Aldrich" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 11:26:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] OpenOffice.org Confusion Chad's right. Although we mostly use it for email, it does have other uses such as scheduling, calendaring, etc. Granted we could use other, individual apps for that, but it's handy to have Outlook for that as well as email. Oh, and we don't use Exchange. Our email is already POP3.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Should bring a spare tin hat friday? ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harrison" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 9:55:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] OpenOffice.org Confusion I have a love/hate thing with Google Apps/Email for business. But I gotta say, if you have nice bandwidth and can run Chrome on decent computers, it's pretty freaking awesome and an insane value at $50/seat per year. I just don't trust it. Nothing gets deleted. It is not a place to email/store sensitive information. And even in business-mode.. I rarely see Outlook as the other ends mail client. It's dying (thankfully).