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Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this saturday

From: Cameron Kilgore 
------------------------------------------------------
In case anyone cares about hackspaces or the
sort.

--Cameron 

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ rsvp on Facebook???? Otherwise pretty cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kilgore" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2011 6:48:07 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Chugalug] Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this saturday In case anyone cares about hackspaces or the sort. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Yes, Facebook. There are more people on Facebook on any given day than there are in the United States of America. A half a billion of them, to give you a number. Pretty safe bet that your tech saavy, creative types are going to be on them. Assuming they aren't dinosaurs. Oops. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: James Nylen ------------------------------------------------------ As a tech-savvy, somewhat creative non-dinosaur, I find Facebook disturbing, along with the trends it represents. I'm far from being alone in this. Better luck next time Chad.

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ I'm with Chad on this one -- Facebook is a pretty good way to tally numbers for events due to its ubiquity. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ They aren't even forcing you to RSVP on Facebook. It's open to the public, which means no RSVP needed - and they give you tons of other ways to contact them to let them know you are coming - you could just leave a comment directly there on that page, you could click "Contact Us" which lists the following: A Google Group, IRC chatroom, Twitter, and an actual phone number, which I'm pretty sure would work even from a rotary landline. I mean, you could even use the Pony Express to reach them, since there's a snail mail address. So, I would think the socialmedia-phobes would still be able to get involved. Unless IRC is part of that disturbing trend you're worked up about. And for the record, I wall off Facebook in its own dedicated web browser, but I still use it. It's dumb to limit yourself because of fear. Be safe, be smart, but be social. I have real life friends that talk to me more through Facebook than email, phone, chat, or text. Facebook is their email, chat, and text. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ If this were a forum instead of a email listserv, I'd make "I'm with Chad on this one" - Cameron my new sig line. :) - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: William Wade ------------------------------------------------------ I think I will side with James. fb is annoying and more annoying are things/web apps that don't have to be but are dependent on it. Not to mention that an RSVP on fb is meaningless in group > 10 people. I think fb is perhaps now coasting on size alone, and that will be its downfall... On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Cameron Kilgore w= rote: rs g alone than em, to types are

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ lol, that's hilarious. The biggest, most powerful, most influential website in existence - with hundreds of millions of real live people investing their time into it each and everyday ... a site that has major site-wide updates every couple of months ... is "coasting along on size". And it's going to fail for that reason. omg, that made me lol. Facebook isn't "too big to fail" and it won't be around forever - but it's not going away any time soon. It's growing every second, not just from users, but developers. And every internet company in the world wants to copy it. I mean, the phrase "The Facebook of

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ I agree with James and this guy.=20 =E2=80=9CThe human race has susceptibility to harm but Mr. Zuckerberg has a= ttained an unenviable record. He has done more harm to the human race than = anybody else his age. Because he harnessed Friday night, that is, =E2=80=98= Everybody needs to get laid,=E2=80=99 and turned into a structure for degen= erating the integrity of human personality and he has to remarkable extent = succeeded with a very poor deal, namely =E2=80=98I will give you free web-h= osting and some PHP doodads and you get spying for free all the time.=E2=80= =99 And it works.=20 How could that have happened? There was no architectural reason. Facebook i= s the web with, =E2=80=98I keep all the logs, how do you feel about that?= =E2=80=99 It=E2=80=99s a terrarium for what it feels like to live in a Pano= pticon built out of web parts. And it shouldn=E2=80=99t be allowed. That=E2= =80=99s a very poor way to deliver those services. They are grossly overpri= ced at =E2=80=99spying all the time=E2=80=99, they are not technically inno= vative. They depend on an architecture subject to misuse and the business m= odel that supports them is misuse. There isn=E2=80=99t any other business m= odel for them. This is bad. I=E2=80=99m not suggesting it should be illegal= . It should be obsolete. We=E2=80=99re technologists we should fix it.=E2= =80=9D -Eben Moglen=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "James Nylen" =20 To: "CHUGALUG" =20 Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2011 10:29:43 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this satur= day=20 As a tech-savvy, somewhat creative non-dinosaur, I find Facebook disturbing= , along with the trends it represents. I'm far from being alone in this. Be= tter luck next time Chad.=20 Yes, Facebook. There are more people on Facebook on any given day than ther= e are in the United States of America. A half a billion of them, to give yo= u a number. Pretty safe bet that your tech saavy, creative types are going = to be on them. Assuming they aren't dinosaurs. Oops.=20 - Chad W Smith=20 "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya=20 rsvp on Facebook????=20 Otherwise pretty cool.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Cameron Kilgore" < ghostfreeman@gmail.com >=20 To: "CHUGALUG" < chugalug@chugalug.org >=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2011 6:48:07 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: [Chugalug] Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this saturday= =20 In case anyone cares about hackspaces or the sort.=20 --Cameron=20

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ I don't see what getting laid has to do with Facebook. I've seen that quot= e before and it makes so sense to me. Do some people use fb to hook up? I'm sure - but every form of communication man has ever invented has been used to hit on people. I'm sure there have been pick-up lines sent up in smoke signals and scrawled on cave walls... And until someone comes up with something better, like he said at the end there "it should be obsolete...we should fix it." - put up or shut up. The kid is a billionaire. If billions of dollars, and proving yourself right and half a billion people wrong isn't enough motivation for you, do it for the pride of geeks everywhere. Or, you know, admit that you have no idea how to do any of that. Whichever= . - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya an ybody e PHP t=92s a to ure ere ing it fix e are

=============================================================== From: Ryan Macy ------------------------------------------------------ The thing about that quote is that it advocates perfection. Well in a perfect world when I do something big -- that in some way effects everyone -- then there is only intended good outcomes and not the unintended bad outcomes. Back in the real world there are pros' and cons.. Unintentional stuff happens. Unless you had a magical crystal ball and could predict the future. up he r han rybody me PHP k It=92s a y to ture here ting it d fix ne o s are

=============================================================== From: Ryan Macy ------------------------------------------------------ The thing about that quote is that it advocates perfection. Well in a perfect world when I do something big -- that in some way effects everyone -- then there is only intended good outcomes and not the unintended bad outcomes. Back in the real world there are pros' and cons up he r han rybody me PHP k It=92s a y to ture here ting it d fix ne o s are

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ Good old Chugalug with its signal-to-noise. I missed you guys. That said there are reasons Facebook does not know where I live, nor my direct cell phone number, or my business email... There are also reasons I don't use Zynga apps because they apparantly have a deal that gives them a lot more access to your data than they & Facebook claim. --Cameron e s up d The t or than erybody d ome PHP ok It=92s a ay to e cture There sting it ld fix one n to es are

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:26:39 -0500 Chad Smith wrote: I don't know how the demographics are in your area, but in my town here I'm the sole holdout tech savvy creative type who still has a Facebook account. The others have abandoned theirs, as a statement. So, yeah, if you want the nerds, Facebook has a lower market penetration than it does in middle America. Facebook is the people I knew in high school, or the people trying to sell me their "social networking savvy", or my parents. It is distinctly *not* the people I know who work at O'Reilly or do embedded Java(!) or are working on telescope control and imaging systems. To name a few examples. Dan

=============================================================== From: Ed King ------------------------------------------------------ From: Cameron Kilgore In case anyone cares about hackspaces or the sort. --Cameron I poked around on the Freeside site but didn't see any obvious information on how they are funded. I saw a "fundraising ideas" page, but ideas and actual funds are two very different things There was a lot of talk a few months ago about funding a local (Chattanooga) hackspace with proceeds from a hardware swapmeet. We were gonna set up a swapboard, but my experience with setting up a swapboard leads me to believe that it wouldn't generate enough funds to fund an Amish LAN party much less a hackspace... A month ago I installed "osclass" and opened it up to the folks on another mailing list I'm on. Only 4 postings in 1 month. Seems its much easier to post a "for sale" message directly to the mailing list (where hundreds of people will see the message immediately) rather than posting the "for sale" to a classified board that hardly anyone is monitoring. here's the link to the osclass board if anyone is curious or jonesin' to buy some car parts... you know you need that '74 Nova bumper... http://s318813070.onlinehome.us/osclass/index.php As this is an "experimental" site that I don't plan on putting a lot of energy into, I have put a cap on the number of allowed registered users.

=============================================================== From: Gary Hasty ------------------------------------------------------ They're primarily funded by monthly dues from the members (no idea how = much they are). They're non-profit so I think they do go after some = grant money also but not sure how successful. Been meaning to drop by = one of their open houses to check them out but may not be able to make = it this weekend. It's a bit too far for me to join and get real usage = out of it but would love to get some ideas for possibly opening = something a little more OTP information on how they are funded. I saw a "fundraising ideas" page, = but ideas and actual funds are two very different things (Chattanooga) hackspace with proceeds from a hardware swapmeet. We were = gonna set up a swapboard, but my experience with setting up a swapboard = leads me to believe that it wouldn't generate enough funds to fund an = Amish LAN party much less a hackspace... another mailing list I'm on. Only 4 postings in 1 month. Seems its = much easier to post a "for sale" message directly to the mailing list = (where hundreds of people will see the message immediately) rather than = posting the "for sale" to a classified board that hardly anyone is = monitoring. to buy some car parts... you know you need that '74 Nova bumper... of energy into, I have put a cap on the number of allowed registered = users.

=============================================================== From: Gary Hasty ------------------------------------------------------ Ahh, looks like $80 for 90% of it's members http://wiki.freesideatlanta.org/dues much they are). They're non-profit so I think they do go after some = grant money also but not sure how successful. Been meaning to drop by = one of their open houses to check them out but may not be able to make = it this weekend. It's a bit too far for me to join and get real usage = out of it but would love to get some ideas for possibly opening = something a little more OTP information on how they are funded. I saw a "fundraising ideas" page, = but ideas and actual funds are two very different things (Chattanooga) hackspace with proceeds from a hardware swapmeet. We were = gonna set up a swapboard, but my experience with setting up a swapboard = leads me to believe that it wouldn't generate enough funds to fund an = Amish LAN party much less a hackspace... another mailing list I'm on. Only 4 postings in 1 month. Seems its = much easier to post a "for sale" message directly to the mailing list = (where hundreds of people will see the message immediately) rather than = posting the "for sale" to a classified board that hardly anyone is = monitoring. to buy some car parts... you know you need that '74 Nova bumper... of energy into, I have put a cap on the number of allowed registered = users.

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ because it is mainstream - and then claim it is because of "Security = concerns". Man, where have I heard this one before....? I'm not a big fan of facebook either. Hell, until recently, I didn't do = Twitter either. I don't dislike it because it's mainstream. There's = certainly an element of that. Facebook is, when you boil it down, the = worlds largest BBS, and I was a pretty big BBS fan. It does rub me the = wrong way that something that I used to consider a fun hobby and got = made fun of for is now somewhat ubiquitous. The security concerns are a large part of why I don't like Facebook, = sure. Centralizing that much personal information for exploitation by = the owners and third parties just goes against every bone in body, and = every inch of my upbringing that said you don't air your dirty laundry = in public.=20 When I got into doing things that were essentially 'social media' back = in the day, it was to actually be social. Getting onto a BBS took a = modicum of effort, so you were reasonably sure the people you were = communicating with had a degree of intelligence (maturity, otoh, but = still....), and might reasonably be people you'd want to associate with. = =46rom those days, real life meetings occurred, and lifelong friendships = were formed. One of the people from those days is the sole reason I = joined this list in the first place. We built communities. The people on = the other end of the computer were real people, not faceless entities.=20= We taught each other, we learned from each other, and we helped each = other out. The community policed itself. If someone acted out, they = usually had a few people to take them aside and set them straight. = Brockman will well remember the night we had a gathering and found out = that one of our associates was being...... less than a gentleman towards = his date. I don't know if that individual ever knew how close he came to = getting his ass kicked that night, but there were at least three people = that knew it. If someone persisted in their bad behavior, they were = excommunicated quite effectively. The community wasn't very large - we = talked.=20 Facebook is a corruption and a sick parody of everything I enjoyed about = social media back in the day. Sure, you get bouts of things that look = like community, and people occasionally learn and teach others. Alot of = it occurs by accident. For the most part, it's a popularity contest, and = an excuse for people to act the way they wish they were instead of how = they actually are. In more than a few cases, folks are living their life = on Facebook as a substitute for an actual social life. Now, Facebook is = not the only example of this - I will attest to that as a recovering WoW = addict, but it's certainly the most visible, and the most prolific. My = view of Facebook is that, instead of being the world's largest = community, it's nothing more than a really big drunken frat party. And oh yeah, it's mainstream. Hate. Rage. RAAAAR KEN SMASH!=

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ quote before and it makes so sense to me. Do some people use fb to hook = up? I'm sure - but every form of communication man has ever invented = has been used to hit on people. I'm sure there have been pick-up lines = sent up in smoke signals and scrawled on cave walls... I have a friend who uses facebook to identify emotionally vulnerable = women, charm them, get them into the sack a few times, and then move on. He knows he's a bastard. He knows what he's doing is wrong. And he = doesn't give a damn. He can charm his way into a woman's good graces = without spending a dime or leaving the comfort of his own home.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Fascebook is an attempt to turn the NET into a company town run by one group. And it may succeed. It's like if AOL became the net for everyone (for a lot folk it was). What real value does it add? And that case of that guy hacking into womens e-mail accounts just by reading public information posted on facebook was too creepy. ie security question: where were you born? Your parents. What is your mothers maiden name? etc etc. Also while kills me to say this since I've been a democratist for tech since BBS days, social sites seem to bring out people like the one in the link below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVz-fO7kxcQ&feature=player

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ Considering this wrong depends on your moral compass. I used to have all kinds of "fun" doing this EXACT same thing on AOL way back when. I am still good friends with alot of those girls... on Facebook. :+P /me ducks and runs for cover from the flamethrowers -AW -- Aaron Welch 423-505-9999 n2nightfall@gmail.com "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas." Chief Mechanic @ HyvMynd Technologies aaron.welch@hyvmynd.com 423-505-9999

=============================================================== From: Ed King ------------------------------------------------------ $80/month is kinda steep, imo. With all the projects and family activities I have going on at home, I am sure I wouldn't be able to spend enough time at the hackspace to justify spending almost $1,000/year for membership. However, the idea of (partially) financially sponsoring someone else's membership came to mind. No strings attached; I would not dictate what projects the person I sponsored could participate in, nor would I lay claim to any inventions. All I ask is to be kept informed of projects and progress so that I know my sponsorship money isn't being pissed away on someone who sits at the hackspace doing nothing more than drinking beer ;-)

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ I recently went to a theatre where a group of guys sitting behind us just would not shut up. Talking about random crap, poking fun at the movie, and being all around a$$es. My wife and I do not get to go enjoy a movie very often, so needless to say I do not like pay $20+ to see a movie and have to deal with this. We and some others asked them to stop and this brought on even more jokes with us as the target. It finally took me asking the wife if it would be ok if I spent the night in jail for throwing this guy down the stairs for them to get the clue. I miss the days when people at least faked respecting other people. -AW

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ This is part of the reasons why I think our hackspace became an inventors cabal. Nobody can realistically afford it. I already pay money to have a membership at Ignition Alley(a coworking space), I don't feel like paying any more right now for any service I only use to meet clients/fiddle/socialize. But they do have a 3d printer. Ugh, choices... --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Ed King wrote: So this one's kinda weird... I recently looked at spending $300-400 a month to set up my shop in a big shared commercial space. Charlene put the kibosh on it because it'd mean I was out most nights, but... I'm about to spend about $20k building a shop in my back yard (on top of the other thousands I have invested in tools to use in that shop). We probably spend $80 a month in gym membership. And still, somehow, a hackerspace doesn't feel like a usable idea... Dan

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ As you have your own shopspace.. I agree. As Nancy and I consider changing some aspects of our life (Less is More), paying $80/mth for some shopspace is a great deal.

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ Costs like this are always interesting. $80/mo seems high but what would it cost to get even the smallest metal shed (or even a storage unit?). Does that include power? Do your neighbors have tools you can (or want to) borrow? Are there going to be other geeks milling about to bounce ideas off? That last bit is the real gem. Creativity feeds off itself. The only drawback, as Dan mentions, is that having space away from the house means he would spend more time away from the house. -Eric -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ It cost $12,000 to build and stock a machine shop on my property. And there are long-term costs like power, internet, legal, and foundation repairs (always get a fresh concrete foundation, kids). Less is more, indeed. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I don't hate Facebook, I choose not to use it and encourage everyone else I know not to use it, and if they must, I refer them to this: http://blog.eset.com/2011/05/25/facebook-privacy I don't choose not to use it and encourage everyone I know not to use it because it is "mainstream" (whatever the hell that means), I do so because it is dangerous, privacy eroding, and the ultimate loss of control (of the things you should hold most dear!), as one entity "owns" and controls all of that information, which is the exact opposite of everything I believe in. Oh yeah, and since it has such a large following of the uninitiated to anything remotely close to "security" is is filled with malware, scams, fake click this, fake-drag that. Facebook is the lowest hanging fruit (application/web exploits being much easier than OS level exploits) of them all. And what does every security report every published including the most recent and containing the largest data sets say in summary: Hackers are lazy. Hackers are persistent. Hackers try every obvious base-level exploit first (default passwords, no passwords). Sure, I could spend weeks analyzing your traffic to attempt an exploit on a PC (or I could just socially engineer a solution, because no one actually explains that SECURITY DEPENDS ON EVERY USER OF THE SYSTEM, and sheeple are stupid, and I can gain everything I need to socially engineer a phone call from the company website and facebook) *or* I could just take over the ASA they left with the default enable password, which I found the first time I scanned your perimeter network. Meh, those that made fun are the same that have a blank look when you tell them they can't find you on facebook now. Eff 'em. The laziness and apathy will not end well.... has not for some already. The saddest part about that incident is that while the dipshit in question had no idea what was about to happen, I'm fairly certain his "date" did, as she was literally pulling him out the front door as you recall. As I like to say, sheeple are stupid. I like that, and am going to steal the comparison. You hit the nail right on the head, it's not a community. It could be, you and I see that, and it frustrates us because the drunk kids are driving the bus... Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3vnWUACgkQABP1RO+tr2SIfgCfdwGZuZseidGIVsboM6cgKReZ bSIAmgJ0tPER2URWarJeU/VFuZpdiPBF =UkQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Ed King ------------------------------------------------------ 90% of my hobby projects are automotive... if our local hackerspace was equipped with tire-changer/balancer, valve grinders, rotisserie, hydraulic lifts and presses, front end alignment tools, welding/torches, a paint booth, and a medical kit (lol) all for $80/month.... sign me up! ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Harrison To: CHUGALUG Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 10:28:05 AM Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this saturday As you have your own shopspace.. I agree. As Nancy and I consider changing some aspects of our life (Less is More), paying $80/mth for some shopspace is a great deal.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Personal budget and space are large factors. Control is another. I still have a project setup on my mill from 2 months ago that I might get to work on this weekend... I could not do that in a shared environment. Heck, we have enough problems sharing a dev system or three at work..

=============================================================== From: Stephen Haywood ------------------------------------------------------ Not to be rude but can we put the I hate facebook in its own thread so I can pay attention to the hackspace/freesides conversation? g s

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ +1 Phil Sieg President snapfon www.snapfon.com office: 423.535.9968 x123 mobile: 423.331.0725 fax: 423.265.9820 Not to be rude but can we put the I hate facebook in its own thread so I can pay attention to the hackspace/freesides conversation?

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Back in the 80's there was a trend to convert full-service "gas" stations to these types of co-ops/bay for hire places. I remember the spectactular darwinistic event in Fort Worth that shut them down there. Forget blaming the liability lawyers, some stupidity is fatal for the human and the idea.

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ unkmar & I have kicked around the idea of a storage space as workshop. We both have a pile of boat anchors to go thru and see if we can make usable. I have a 12 x 15 that I got for $65 of month but that was a deal. I think it normally runs $75. With power coming from the plug in the light socket. It may not be as crazy as you thought. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harrison" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 1:03:10 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] Freeside Atlanta is having an open house this saturday Personal budget and space are large factors. Control is another. I still have a project setup on my mill from 2 months ago that I might get to work on this weekend... I could not do that in a shared environment. Heck, we have enough problems sharing a dev system or three at work..

=============================================================== From: Cameron Kilgore ------------------------------------------------------ There's a difference between getting burned with a soldering iron or getting teabagged while sleeping through a kernel compile, and getting crushed to death by a transmission dropping out of a car while servicing the differential axle. --Cameron

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ I suppose that's true. My moral compass says that lying to women for the = sole purpose of getting them in bed happens to be wrong, even if it is a = time honored tradition among the male species all kinds of "fun" doing this EXACT same thing on AOL way back when. I = am still good friends with alot of those girls... on Facebook. :+P wrote: women, charm them, get them into the sack a few times, and then move on. doesn't give a damn. He can charm his way into a woman's good graces = without spending a dime or leaving the comfort of his own home.