iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted

From: Dave Brockman 
------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

http://blog.crackpassword.com/2011/05/elcomsoft-breaks-iphone-encryption-offers-forensic-access-to-file-system-dumps/

Regards,

dtb
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk3ef5AACgkQABP1RO+tr2Rb8QCfbl4L8biN3Ij4390q9JIemJcG
wM0Amwc6nstOnslhLTyXdSHgwXJ9Sylz
=bKt1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Aaron welch ------------------------------------------------------ I feel like Eric Cartman from Southpark with the satellite disk coming out of my a$$. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r2y9XuR5Fc&feature=related -AW

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 26 May 2011 12:28:00 -0400 Dave Brockman wrote: Basically they figured out what the encryption algorithm is so that you can brute force the password. Not terribly interesting. Dan

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 And packaged a nice little kit for LEA. Yay. How about this then? http://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/2487-cracking-a-skype-call-using-phonemes.html Cracking encryption w/ linguistics? Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3exN0ACgkQABP1RO+tr2RJNwCggFggsrRAPxs156ThJjzJLUDJ mcMAmwTz8MwFFrArC5V6KQAap4ejdU9U =vTgs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ After the revelation that Michigan police have already been dumping phones during routine traffic stops, and has had scanners that can defeat simple password protection, this particular article is a 'yeah, and?'. If you have any brain cells at all, you've already used the iphone configuration utility to turn on the more advanced encryption and password protection options. They can still crack the phone, but depending on the complexity you want to set your password to, not in a reasonable amount of time.

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What wold your best, educated guestimate of the percentage of total iphone users in the US who 1) Understand the "iphone configuration utility to turn on the more advanced encryption and password protection options" and 2) know how to access them? You and I understand things, and take extra efforts... others I suspect may not, and may only need a prod like this to do it :) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3fFLcACgkQABP1RO+tr2T4iwCgv6sITq7nhlSfGysNJJkV9Z6m zY4AnR4LHSwU9R+vkIbQkFB7g7q/3pz/ =DFo9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ If I am stupid enough to leave the evidence on my phone I deserve what I get= . Also of note is that a house with the front door open with nothing value i= n plain sight is less of a target than a vault with the assumption that you a= re hiding something valuable. Average Joe is not going to peruse everything= available, but if they have to go through the trouble of getting it... Also= , Go phones and txt only SIMcards are cheap and bought with cash. -AW

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ No offense I disagree. Most folk have no idea how half this stuff works nor what the gov is doing these days. Hell the iPhone exists because some people need turn key tech. How many even know that gov now asserts they don't need a warrant for read mail on the server? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Welch" To: "CHUGALUG" Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:36:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Chugalug] iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted If I am stupid enough to leave the evidence on my phone I deserve what I get. Also of note is that a house with the front door open with nothing value in plain sight is less of a target than a vault with the assumption that you are hiding something valuable. Average Joe is not going to peruse everything available, but if they have to go through the trouble of getting it... Also, Go phones and txt only SIMcards are cheap and bought with cash. -AW

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question, as I did specify 'if you had any brain cells'. If the majority of people did have brain cells, most of us would have to get real jobs.

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ Oh, of course, if you're doing something where you definitely do not want your phone used as evidence, you should be using burner phones! On the other hand, it's amazing what can be used against you in court these days, so you can't be too careful about what you let fall into peoples hands.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ or... I don't know - not use your cell phone that day. I mean, come on, people. Several thoughts.... If these alleged government agencies with this alleged power is catching bad guys - then great. But I don't think it is. I mean when was the last time you heard "And he was damned by the evidence gathered from data mining his cell phone." It seems to me that one of three things is happening: - The government doesn't actually have / use the power that conspiracy theorist think they do. - The government doesn't know how to use the information they get from this power yet. - This power doesn't give them any usable evidence. I'm not talking about wiretapping - i'm talking the scary voodoo "we knew where you were every second for the past 6 months because of your phone" powers. Cell phone data doesn't track people. It tracks phones. If I was a criminal - you know, like a real one, not a speeding ticket criminal, which I am - I'd start taking the bus for rides in the evening. Never getting off - just ride from my house - to the end of the line, and back to my house. Not every evening - but enough to establish a pattern. I'd never make direct eye contact with the driver, and I'd always pay in exact change. Never a ticket - never a pass - never anything out of the ordinary. And I'd never talk to anyone. Just get on the bus with my phone in my pocket and my paper in front of my face. Then, the night of the murder, I'd get on the bus, like usual, and a few stops later hop off with a group of other people - my cell phone neatly tucked in a safe spot on the bus. Hack - slash - shower - jump back on the bus a few stops from my house on the way back, again, with a group of people, quietly retreive my phone and get off the bus. The cell phone is my alibi. The bus driver can pick me out of a line up because he's seen me a few dozen times, but doesn't really remember where. It must have been from that night. The cell phone says I was there. He definitely has seen me before. Had to be that night. Yeah - he was there. Rode to the end of the line and back, just reading the paper. Guess a crowded bus is better than a noisy house. No way he killed that man - he was on my bus! And before you say anything - I would be sure the buses I rode was the order ones, the ones without cameras.... - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Ryan Macy ------------------------------------------------------ So when do you plan to do it? haha

=============================================================== From: Michael Scholten ------------------------------------------------------ I think Chad has put a little too much thought into this... *Calls up an FBI agent friend of mine* "Hey, I have a guy here you may want to keep an eye on..."

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 There's no need, list posts are publicly available. I'm sure when the [Pick your 3-letter agency] processes the latest batch, the appropriate watchful eye(s) will be in place. The perfect murder would be more difficult to pull off w/o leaving other forensic evidence that would contradict the phone alibi. You might get enough doubt in a jury's mind, however I'm certain the prosecution would be capable of finding at least one expert to testify that yes, the phone was on the bus, but it was unused during the entire time, even though it received 2 phone calls and 4 texts, which based on previous useage history shows Chad never waited more than 20 seconds to check texts.... Or something like that, it's early for this already :) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3g+mYACgkQABP1RO+tr2Q/KACfT6zCvlAYdbu6bX+1w+cuGw5M EsoAoIDNcNz/rRysI1XFTTa49l/h2hge =Late -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Lisa Ridley ------------------------------------------------------ Wait....if we're talking about AT&T here....It's entirely plausible that = text messages/phone calls sent while the phone was on the bus weren't = received until hours, or even days later. Don't know about Verizon... may appropriate other get would phone it texts....

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The phone has the timestamps the time the SMS messages were received and vibrated his phone, all occurring during the time in question. It's my scenario, of course I'm stacking the deck :) Regards, dtb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3g/PgACgkQABP1RO+tr2R4ggCgwOZS0VtoGHGL9JuciPe8OyjO ffgAnAu4pmOkAX87FYg4ESQfTpX7YZcy =4Gfs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ You do understand that geolocation data is not the only thing they can datamine from your phone, correct? Records of calls, texts, pictures, video, etc, even after they've been deleted, are all recoverable. So let's say you get up to go take a piss, and don't take your phone with you. And your daughter's 15 year old friend decides to get cute and take a picture of her tits on your phone, but thinks better of it afterward and deletes it. Later that day, you get stopped by the Michigan police, and since you have nothing to hide, you're cooperative when they ask you to hand over your cell phone, and they dump it. Now the annoyance of being pulled over for speeding, or a broken taillight, improper lane change, whatever has just turned into a really bad day because of a kiddie porn rap. cooperating with the police does absolutely nothing to help you. It can only hurt you.

=============================================================== From: Aaron Welch ------------------------------------------------------ To be clear cooperation for the greater good is ok, volunteering to be an ex= ample by not knowing your rights is plain dumb. I would not volunteer my ph= one to the police since that would violate my 5th amendment rights and I wou= ld think constitute some kind of illegal search and seizure is some states. -AW ged power is catching bad guys - then great. But I don't think it is. I me= an when was the last time you heard "And he was damned by the evidence gathe= red from data mining his cell phone." It seems to me that one of three thin= gs is happening: amine from your phone, correct? Records of calls, texts, pictures, video, et= c, even after they've been deleted, are all recoverable. ou. And your daughter's 15 year old friend decides to get cute and take a pi= cture of her tits on your phone, but thinks better of it afterward and delet= es it. nothing to hide, you're cooperative when they ask you to hand over your cel= l phone, and they dump it. , improper lane change, whatever has just turned into a really bad day becau= se of a kiddie porn rap. ly hurt you.

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ and I guess I should be a little more clear - I am more than willing to cooperate with the police.... as long as it's not an adversarial situation. If they need my expertise for something, sure, I'll help. If I'm a suspect, they can go pound sand, I won't talk to anyone but the lawyer who's representing me. If a policeman stops me, and decides to violate my rights by illegally searching me, I'm sure as hell not going to resist, that'll get you tazed or shot, but I'm going to protest often and loudly I'm not consenting to this search, and get anything they decide to use as evidence thrown out of court. In the same vein - I encrypt my profile on my phone, and I have a passcode set. I have absolutely nothing to hide, but I also value my privacy. I realize I may be a bit old fashioned, given that we live in a world where people Twitter about taking a poop, or post pictures on Facebook with them hitting the Biggest Bong Ever (TM). But I believe my business is my business, and none of yours (yours, being the collective rest of humanity). I just think it's foolish to not take every precaution possible to protect yourself.

=============================================================== From: Ken Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ And while I'm at it.... this would be a weak alibi. That's like trying to use something like World of Warcraft as an excuse. "I was at home logged into my WoW account! Check the records!" The cell phone is obviously an item that can be separated from you, and you take a huge risk leaving it behind. If someone were to find it and turn it in, then either that person is a witness that you weren't on the bus during the time frame of the murder (assuming you left it in plain sight, or if it came lose of it's concealment and was found), or that you were actively contriving an alibi if it was found in it's concealed location (again, if you concealed it, and someone discovers it, and you're not that to claim it immediately, it goes towards showing you were not in fact on that bus). And what happens if the bus you left it on isn't running when you come back for it? Maybe the driver took an early break. Maybe the bus has an accident. Maybe the bus gets a flat tire, or engine trouble, and needs to be towed. Maybe you're just a little bit late and miss the bus, or maybe the driver is a little too early. Maybe someone else has issues, and that bus is diverted to cover that route instead of the route you're used to seeing him on. Far, far too many variables to hang your life on. You'd be better off using an accomplice to dress like you and do your routine with your phone. Of course, then you take the risk of THEM screwing up, or using you as a bargaining chip if they get in trouble further down the line. It's not particularly difficult to shoot that alibi full of reasonable doubt, any prosecutor worth their salt could do it, especially if they have other evidence linking you to a crime. You left fingerprints? Better have a real good excuse for that. Left DNA evidence? How'd that happen? Setting up that kind of an alibi is also an expectation to fail, IMHO. It means you think you're going to screw up, and you'll need it. Go pick up a copy of Mr. Brooks. That guy does it right. Proper surveillance, takes pains to leave no physical evidence, burns the clothes he was wearing, keeps no souvenirs. Or go find yourself a copy of the Paladin Press Rex Feral Hitman book. The key to getting away with murder is avoiding getting caught by passive surveillance, not leaving any physical evidence behind, and destroying any physical evidence still in your possession. Disposing of the body in a manner in which it won't be found is a nice perk, but as Mr. Reiser can tell you, it doesn't prevent you from getting convicted, so you have to judge whether it's worth the risk. For the rest of you, yes, I have a morbid interest in things like this. Figuring out a way to commit the perfect murder is a challenging mental exercise. And I watch far, far too many cop shows.

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ Please give me a break. First, I don't have any plans on killing anyone. Secondly, if I did I'd do a little more planning than the 3 minutes it took me to come up with my cell bus alibi. I'd wear gloves - whatever other precautions. Thirdly, the alibi wasn't *just* the phone - it was the phone in conjunction with the bus driver. Fourthly - and this is the main one, other than maybe the fact that I'm not planning on killing anyone - it was an attempt to illustrate exactly how stupid it would be to build a case solely or primarily on evidence pulled from a suspect's cell phone. If a good prosecutor can poke holes in the "my cell phone was on the bus" defense - then a good defense attourney should be able to say "someone pick-pocketed my client" or whatever other excuse it would be easy to come up with to defend his client. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Christopher Rimondi ------------------------------------------------------ This discussion reminded me of a blog article by Rob Lee talking about why Law is not a Science. Here is a excerpt from another blog article referenced in it. http://ralphlosey.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/tech-v-law-a-plea-for-mutual-respect/ ) *...the practice of law is an art, not a science, and the human element can never be replaced by technology.* *Unlike computer code, the rules of law are malleable and there are always exceptions. This in turn is one of the key reasons the two cultures of Law and IT have such a hard time understanding one another. It is also the reason a few inexperienced engineer types are delusionary and arrogant enough to think that e-discovery can be "fixed" with the right software algorithms. It cannot because law is not a science, it is far too complex and chaotic for that. Or if it is a science, it is more like Quantum Physics, where electrons are unpredictable and can be in two places at once, not the orderly world of Newtonian Science that most engineers live in.* *Yes, there are many computer programs that can be used as effective tools in the pursuit of justice. We lawyers need to wake up to that fact. But so too do the technologists who think the right software alone will fix everything. The human element is key in Law which is one reason that training is so important.*

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ Did I just hear a conservative say trust the Government? So these guys are just conspiracy theorists? http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chad Smith" =20 To: "CHUGALUG" =20 Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:37:28 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted=20 or... I don't know - not use your cell phone that day.=20 I mean, come on, people.=20 Several thoughts.... If these alleged government agencies with this alleged= power is catching bad guys - then great. But I don't think it is. I mean w= hen was the last time you heard "And he was damned by the evidence gathered= from data mining his cell phone." It seems to me that one of three things = is happening:=20 =E2=80=A2 The government doesn't actually have / use the power that con= spiracy theorist think they do.=20 =E2=80=A2 The government doesn't know how to use the information they g= et from this power yet.=20 =E2=80=A2 This power doesn't give them any usable evidence.=20 I'm not talking about wiretapping - i'm talking the scary voodoo "we knew w= here you were every second for the past 6 months because of your phone" pow= ers.=20 Cell phone data doesn't track people. It tracks phones.=20 If I was a criminal - you know, like a real one, not a speeding ticket crim= inal, which I am - I'd start taking the bus for rides in the evening. Never= getting off - just ride from my house - to the end of the line, and back t= o my house. Not every evening - but enough to establish a pattern. I'd neve= r make direct eye contact with the driver, and I'd always pay in exact chan= ge. Never a ticket - never a pass - never anything out of the ordinary. And= I'd never talk to anyone. Just get on the bus with my phone in my pocket a= nd my paper in front of my face.=20 Then, the night of the murder, I'd get on the bus, like usual, and a few st= ops later hop off with a group of other people - my cell phone neatly tucke= d in a safe spot on the bus. Hack - slash - shower - jump back on the bus a= few stops from my house on the way back, again, with a group of people, qu= ietly retreive my phone and get off the bus.=20 The cell phone is my alibi. The bus driver can pick me out of a line up bec= ause he's seen me a few dozen times, but doesn't really remember where. It = must have been from that night. The cell phone says I was there. He definit= ely has seen me before. Had to be that night. Yeah - he was there. Rode to = the end of the line and back, just reading the paper. Guess a crowded bus i= s better than a noisy house. No way he killed that man - he was on my bus!= =20 And before you say anything - I would be sure the buses I rode was the orde= r ones, the ones without cameras....=20 - Chad W Smith=20 "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya=20 =20 If I am stupid enough to leave the evidence on my phone I deserve what I ge= t. Also of note is that a house with the front door open with nothing value= in plain sight is less of a target than a vault with the assumption that y= ou are hiding something valuable. Average Joe is not going to peruse everyt= hing available, but if they have to go through the trouble of getting it...= Also, Go phones and txt only SIMcards are cheap and bought with cash.=20 Oh, of course, if you're doing something where you definitely do not want y= our phone used as evidence, you should be using burner phones!=20 On the other hand, it's amazing what can be used against you in court these= days, so you can't be too careful about what you let fall into peoples han= ds.=20

=============================================================== From: Kenneth Ratliff ------------------------------------------------------ Of course not, this is all academic exercise. took me to come up with my cell bus alibi. I'd wear gloves - whatever = other precautions. I would hope so. Otherwise, you'd get your fifteen minutes of fame, on = the local news broadcast when you were apprehended, because your = scenario=20 conjunction with the bus driver. And what method are you going to use to ensure he tells the story you = want him to tell. You really think a guy driving a bus, when confronted = with the grisly evidence of your victim's untimely death, is going to = hold up when the prosecutor gets in his face and asks 'Now, Mr. Bus = Driver - Are you absolutely, positively certain this man was on your bus = during the time period in question? Remember, you're under oath!' =20 If so, you have a hell of alot more faith than I do, and you've got = balls making that kind of all in call. An item that you can't prove you were in possession of at the time of = the crime, and a guy who sees hundreds of people every day are what = you're going to rely on to save your bacon. You better hope the = commission of the crime was done expertly enough that the police never = get wind of you on their radar. If they did, you're an easy win stat for = whatever ADA's desk that case lands on. I'm not planning on killing anyone - it was an attempt to illustrate = exactly how stupid it would be to build a case solely or primarily on = evidence pulled from a suspect's cell phone. If a good prosecutor can = poke holes in the "my cell phone was on the bus" defense - then a good = defense attourney should be able to say "someone pick-pocketed my = client" or whatever other excuse it would be easy to come up with to = defend his client. If the police dump your cellphone and find something to incriminate you = on it, and your defense lawyer tries to use a 'someone pickpocketed my = client' defense, you really think that's going to fly? How did you get = the phone back? Was he nice enough to return it? If you've got something = incriminating on your phone, and you've got no paper trail to ever prove = it was out of your possession (police report, lost phone case with the = cell provider, whatever), then you are screwed. You'll be equally = screwed when they get the subpoena to seize all your computer gear as = evidence and find the same incriminating data in the backups of whatever = computer you sync your phone up with. It's the same thing as the folks = who are getting charged because they have kiddie porn on their laptops = when they come back into the country, so yeah, there are cases that are = made and prosecuted based solely on the data on an electronic device. Now, if the police find your cell phone at a crime scene, without you = being present, and try to use that as evidence against you, then you can = make an argument.=20

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ First off - I'm no cartoon characture of a Super Conservative - I have varying opinions on a great number of topics, and to say that "well, he's a conservative, so he must believe a, b,c, d, e, and f!"is an incredibly simplistic and ultimately wrong way to classify people. Secondly - even from that stand point, how hard is it to remember that it was under a conservative President that signed the Patriot Act (but - to debunk that theory at the same time, it was a liberal Congress that voted i= t into place). If you want to really place the Conservative / Liberal card here, you're doing it wrong. Conservatives do trust the government with information, just not with money, or the right to tell us what to do with our money, (IE Healthcare). Pro-small government but also pro-big military. Defending our borders and enforcing our laws is what government is supposed to be doing. Now, yes, I do thing that a Wired reporter with an ACLU finace is a conspiracy theorist, and a Democratic senator who wants to grab some spotlight by saying "I don't think know what the government knows - but I can't say any specifics!" would fall under that as well. And just to throw one more monkey wrench into your "This is a conversative vs. liberal issue!" - It is a liberal President now, who, up until a few months ago, had a liberal Congress backing him - that is wratching up its use ("96 times in 2010 =97 up from just 21 requests the year before"). That all said - I never once said "Trust the government" - I said what I said. It either doesn't actually have those powers, or hasn't been using them very well. Ninety-six times? Whoo! That's like twice a week! My oh my. At that rate, it will "only" take 3,208 years until every man, woman, and child in America has the Patriot Act pulled on them. It must be stoppe= d now! ... or at least some point in the next 3 millennium. Do I want the government tracking my every move? No. But am I concerned i= f they did - only if I was being singled out. If I was the only person they were tracking - yeah, I'd get worried - but if I was one of 200 million... No. I could care less. One huge major thing most people are overlooking in this whole thing. You talk about "the Government" - like it's one massive entity. "The Governmen= t knows your every move!" No, it doesn't. The *Federal* government *may* have access to *archives* of your every move. That's vastly different than the local cops being able to type you cell phone number into a computer and pull up your exact location in real time. And, no, the door isn't open to that, either. Getting rights from a Federal level down to even the state level is a huge undertaking, and then going down further and further into local beat cops... *IF* that ever happens, we'll all be long dead by then. And, if you are truly tinfoil about this - don't get a cell phone. After all of that - I don't like the idea of any government agency being able to pull up my gps location - at all. It's not cool, and I don't like it. It's just creepy. But, it's not something I'm overly concerned about, either. There are a lot of other things I would change before I got down t= o that - if i had magical "America, my way" powers. LOTS of other things I would change first. You'd barely recognize the place. :) It would be awesome. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ 1.Chad in the 107th congress (2001 is when patriot act passed)the republica= ns held the House.=20 2. Barack Obama is not a liberal. He was a well known member of the Democra= tic Leadership Conference, a well known centrists group in the democratic p= arty. Just ask the Progressive Caucus. Truth is the Presendency oscillates between Center-right to Center-left but= rarely strays from the political center. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chad Smith" =20 To: "CHUGALUG" =20 Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 12:39:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted=20 First off - I'm no cartoon characture of a Super Conservative - I have vary= ing opinions on a great number of topics, and to say that "well, he's a con= servative, so he must believe a, b,c, d, e, and f!"is an incredibly simplis= tic and ultimately wrong way to classify people.=20 Secondly - even from that stand point, how hard is it to remember that it w= as under a conservative President that signed the Patriot Act (but - to deb= unk that theory at the same time, it was a liberal Congress that voted it i= nto place).=20 If you want to really place the Conservative / Liberal card here, you're do= ing it wrong. Conservatives do trust the government with information, just = not with money, or the right to tell us what to do with our money, (IE Heal= thcare).=20 Pro-small government but also pro-big military. Defending our borders and e= nforcing our laws is what government is supposed to be doing.=20 Now, yes, I do thing that a Wired reporter with an ACLU finace is a conspir= acy theorist, and a Democratic senator who wants to grab some spotlight by = saying "I don't think know what the government knows - but I can't say any = specifics!" would fall under that as well.=20 And just to throw one more monkey wrench into your "This is a conversative = vs. liberal issue!" - It is a liberal President now, who, up until a few mo= nths ago, had a liberal Congress backing him - that is wratching up its use= ("96 times in 2010 =E2=80=94 up from just 21 requests the year before").= =20 That all said - I never once said "Trust the government" - I said what I sa= id. It either doesn't actually have those powers, or hasn't been using them= very well. Ninety-six times? Whoo! That's like twice a week! My oh my. At = that rate, it will "only" take 3,208 years until every man, woman, and chil= d in America has the Patriot Act pulled on them. It must be stopped now! ..= . or at least some point in the next 3 millennium.=20 Do I want the government tracking my every move? No. But am I concerned if = they did - only if I was being singled out. If I was the only person they w= ere tracking - yeah, I'd get worried - but if I was one of 200 million... N= o. I could care less.=20 One huge major thing most people are overlooking in this whole thing. You t= alk about "the Government" - like it's one massive entity. "The Government = knows your every move!" No, it doesn't. The *Federal* government *may* have= access to *archives* of your every move. That's vastly different than the = local cops being able to type you cell phone number into a computer and pul= l up your exact location in real time. And, no, the door isn't open to that= , either. Getting rights from a Federal level down to even the state level = is a huge undertaking, and then going down further and further into local b= eat cops... *IF* that ever happens, we'll all be long dead by then.=20 And, if you are truly tinfoil about this - don't get a cell phone.=20 After all of that - I don't like the idea of any government agency being ab= le to pull up my gps location - at all. It's not cool, and I don't like it.= It's just creepy. But, it's not something I'm overly concerned about, eith= er. There are a lot of other things I would change before I got down to tha= t - if i had magical "America, my way" powers. LOTS of other things I would= change first. You'd barely recognize the place. :) It would be awesome.=20 - Chad W Smith=20 "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya=20 =20 Did I just hear a conservative say trust the Government?=20 So these guys are just conspiracy theorists?=20 http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/=20

=============================================================== From: Chad Smith ------------------------------------------------------ If you think Obama is a Centrist - you are either so far crazy left you mak= e Marx look like Reagan, or you've bought into the lie the Obama spin machine has sold you, wittingly or unwittingly. Obamacare, Raising the Debt ceiling (14 Trillion isn't enough), ... I can'= t even bother. Believe whatever you want. I'm out. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya ut a it ust e y. ow! f . nt ve ull , is at to :

=============================================================== From: KIG ------------------------------------------------------ Not to mention the expansion of government with the DHS or the unfunded exp= ense of the prescription drug bill. I guess if the airplane takeover of PS= A 1771 was done by a crazy person with an organized "cause" all of this wou= ld have started 15 years earlier....=0A=0AKeith=0A=0AOn May 29, 2011, at 1:= 07 PM, Rod-Lists wrote:=0A=0A1.Chad in the 107th cong= ress (2001 is when patriot act passed)the republicans held the House. =0A2.= Barack Obama is not a liberal. He was a well known member of the Democrati= c Leadership Conference, a well known centrists group in the democratic par= ty. Just ask the Progressive Caucus.=0A=0ATruth is the Presendency oscillat= es between Center-right to Center-left but rarely strays from the political= center.=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "Chad Smith" =0ATo: "CHUGALUG" =0ASent: Sunday, May 29,= 2011 12:39:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern =0ASubject: Re: [Chugalug] i= phone encrypted filesystem decrypted =0A=0AFirst off - I'm no cartoon chara= cture of a Super Conservative - I have varying opinions on a great number o= f topics, and to say that "well, he's a conservative, so he must believe a,= b,c, d, e, and f!"is an incredibly simplistic and ultimately wrong way to = classify people. =0A=0ASecondly - even from that stand point, how hard is i= t to remember that it was under a conservative President that signed the Pa= triot Act (but - to debunk that theory at the same time, it was a liberal C= ongress that voted it into place). =0A=0AIf you want to really place the Co= nservative / Liberal card here, you're doing it wrong. Conservatives do tru= st the government with information, just not with money, or the right to te= ll us what to do with our money, (IE Healthcare). =0A=0APro-small governmen= t but also pro-big military. Defending our borders and enforcing our laws i= s what government is supposed to be doing. =0A=0ANow, yes, I do thing that = a Wired reporter with an ACLU finace is a conspiracy theorist, and a Democr= atic senator who wants to grab some spotlight by saying "I don't think know= what the government knows - but I can't say any specifics!" would fall und= er that as well. =0A=0AAnd just to throw one more monkey wrench into your "= This is a conversative vs. liberal issue!" - It is a liberal President now,= who, up until a few months ago, had a liberal Congress backing him - that = is wratching up its use ("96 times in 2010 =E2=80=94 up from just 21 reques= ts the year before"). =0A=0AThat all said - I never once said "Trust the go= vernment" - I said what I said. It either doesn't actually have those power= s, or hasn't been using them very well. Ninety-six times? Whoo! That's like= twice a week! My oh my. At that rate, it will "only" take 3,208 years unti= l every man, woman, and child in America has the Patriot Act pulled on them= . It must be stopped now! ... or at least some point in the next 3 millenni= um. =0A=0ADo I want the government tracking my every move? No. But am I con= cerned if they did - only if I was being singled out. If I was the only per= son they were tracking - yeah, I'd get worried - but if I was one of 200 mi= llion... No. I could care less. =0A=0AOne huge major thing most people are = overlooking in this whole thing. You talk about "the Government" - like it'= s one massive entity. "The Government knows your every move!" No, it doesn'= t. The *Federal* government *may* have access to *archives* of your every m= ove. That's vastly different than the local cops being able to type you cel= l phone number into a computer and pull up your exact location in real time= . And, no, the door isn't open to that, either. Getting rights from a Feder= al level down to even the state level is a huge undertaking, and then going= down further and further into local beat cops... *IF* that ever happens, w= e'll all be long dead by then. =0A=0AAnd, if you are truly tinfoil about th= is - don't get a cell phone. =0A=0AAfter all of that - I don't like the ide= a of any government agency being able to pull up my gps location - at all. = It's not cool, and I don't like it. It's just creepy. But, it's not somethi= ng I'm overly concerned about, either. There are a lot of other things I wo= uld change before I got down to that - if i had magical "America, my way" p= owers. LOTS of other things I would change first. You'd barely recognize th= e place. :) It would be awesome. =0A=0A- Chad W Smith =0A"I like a man who'= s middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - February 10, 2003 bit.ly/= gwb-dubya =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Rod-Lists < rod-lis= ts@epbfi.com > wrote: =0A=0A=0ADid I just hear a conservative say trust the= Government? =0A=0ASo these guys are just conspiracy theorists? =0Ahttp://w= ww.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/ =0A=0A

=============================================================== From: Phil Sieg ------------------------------------------------------ Chad, I find you disturbing. Sent from my iPhone If you think Obama is a Centrist - you are either so far crazy left you mak= e Marx look like Reagan, or you've bought into the lie the Obama spin machine has sold you, wittingly or unwittingly. Obamacare, Raising the Debt ceiling (14 Trillion isn't enough), ... I can'= t even bother. Believe whatever you want. I'm out. - Chad W Smith "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya ut a it ust e y. ow! f . nt ve ull , is at to :

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ thats rich chad. accuse someone of binary thinking then engage in it yourse= lf.=20 Perhaps you should take a poly sci course and learn what socialisms is and = turn off the am talk radio. Explain this to Chad if such a socialist why did take single payer of the t= able?=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chad Smith" =20 To: "CHUGALUG" =20 Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 2:38:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted=20 If you think Obama is a Centrist - you are either so far crazy left you mak= e Marx look like Reagan, or you've bought into the lie the Obama spin machi= ne has sold you, wittingly or unwittingly.=20 Obamacare, Raising the Debt ceiling (14 Trillion isn't enough), ... I can't= even bother. Believe whatever you want. I'm out.=20 - Chad W Smith=20 "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya=20 =20 1.Chad in the 107th congress (2001 is when patriot act passed)the republica= ns held the House.=20 2. Barack Obama is not a liberal. He was a well known member of the Democra= tic Leadership Conference, a well known centrists group in the democratic p= arty. Just ask the Progressive Caucus.=20 Truth is the Presendency oscillates between Center-right to Center-left but= rarely strays from the political center.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chad Smith" < chad78@gmail.com >=20 To: "CHUGALUG" < chugalug@chugalug.org >=20 Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 12:39:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: Re: [Chugalug] iphone encrypted filesystem decrypted=20 First off - I'm no cartoon characture of a Super Conservative - I have vary= ing opinions on a great number of topics, and to say that "well, he's a con= servative, so he must believe a, b,c, d, e, and f!"is an incredibly simplis= tic and ultimately wrong way to classify people.=20 Secondly - even from that stand point, how hard is it to remember that it w= as under a conservative President that signed the Patriot Act (but - to deb= unk that theory at the same time, it was a liberal Congress that voted it i= nto place).=20 If you want to really place the Conservative / Liberal card here, you're do= ing it wrong. Conservatives do trust the government with information, just = not with money, or the right to tell us what to do with our money, (IE Heal= thcare).=20 Pro-small government but also pro-big military. Defending our borders and e= nforcing our laws is what government is supposed to be doing.=20 Now, yes, I do thing that a Wired reporter with an ACLU finace is a conspir= acy theorist, and a Democratic senator who wants to grab some spotlight by = saying "I don't think know what the government knows - but I can't say any = specifics!" would fall under that as well.=20 And just to throw one more monkey wrench into your "This is a conversative = vs. liberal issue!" - It is a liberal President now, who, up until a few mo= nths ago, had a liberal Congress backing him - that is wratching up its use= ("96 times in 2010 =E2=80=94 up from just 21 requests the year before").= =20 That all said - I never once said "Trust the government" - I said what I sa= id. It either doesn't actually have those powers, or hasn't been using them= very well. Ninety-six times? Whoo! That's like twice a week! My oh my. At = that rate, it will "only" take 3,208 years until every man, woman, and chil= d in America has the Patriot Act pulled on them. It must be stopped now! ..= . or at least some point in the next 3 millennium.=20 Do I want the government tracking my every move? No. But am I concerned if = they did - only if I was being singled out. If I was the only person they w= ere tracking - yeah, I'd get worried - but if I was one of 200 million... N= o. I could care less.=20 One huge major thing most people are overlooking in this whole thing. You t= alk about "the Government" - like it's one massive entity. "The Government = knows your every move!" No, it doesn't. The *Federal* government *may* have= access to *archives* of your every move. That's vastly different than the = local cops being able to type you cell phone number into a computer and pul= l up your exact location in real time. And, no, the door isn't open to that= , either. Getting rights from a Federal level down to even the state level = is a huge undertaking, and then going down further and further into local b= eat cops... *IF* that ever happens, we'll all be long dead by then.=20 And, if you are truly tinfoil about this - don't get a cell phone.=20 After all of that - I don't like the idea of any government agency being ab= le to pull up my gps location - at all. It's not cool, and I don't like it.= It's just creepy. But, it's not something I'm overly concerned about, eith= er. There are a lot of other things I would change before I got down to tha= t - if i had magical "America, my way" powers. LOTS of other things I would= change first. You'd barely recognize the place. :) It would be awesome.=20 - Chad W Smith=20 "I like a man who's middle name is W." - President George W. Bush - Februar= y 10, 2003 bit.ly/gwb-dubya=20 =20 Did I just hear a conservative say trust the Government?=20 So these guys are just conspiracy theorists?=20 http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/=20